Have you ever been defeated by a tyre?

[Scottish.cyclist.lad]

... torture getting her tyres on and off because (like many) tubeless ready rims and tyres...
This is understandably limiting her enjoyment of riding, as she doesn't feel independent.
She's tried/trying various tyre mounting aids/jacks/toys,we're working on technique (including many of the excellent suggestions in this thread), so that isn't my question.
She's tried tubeless, didn't like it, she wants to remain tubed.
DT Swiss E1800 650 wheels, 20mm nominal internal, currently suffering with Shwalbe Pro One microskin tyres
She's not racing nor loaded touring, prefers 28mm tyres
Any advice on tyre choice gratefully accepted!

I run 28mm tubed GP5000s tyres (and previously 25mm GP4000s) on DT Swiss RR411 Tubeless rims and fit and remove them without levers.

Thanks for that, interesting, and it makes sense - even though I've only used them on non-tubeless rims I've always found them very easy-ons so probably an option worth trying

I currently have non tubeless GP5000 tyres on tubeless ready wheels and I can also remove them and put them back on in 3 minutes and without tyre levers. Go figure...

[iandusud]

I know I'll probably get shot down in flames by some but I do think it is down to technique. When I'm out on club runs and someone gets a puncture and is struggling getting a tyre off or on again someone will usually shout out "pass it to Ian" and I'll have it done in no time WITHOUT using levers. Now having been in the trade for many years of my life I have changed many thousands of tyres so I know what I'm doing, but I can assure you it has nothing to do with having strong thumbs! I've seen people who have broken tyre levers look at me in disbelief as I take their tyre off with my bare hands. Likewise people who can't get there tyre on who then watch me carefully slip the last bit of tyre on without great effort. Some combos are more difficult than others but they are always IME heavy tyres particularly narrow ones because they aren't very supple. Probably the hardest one I've come across in recent years was a Schwalbe Marathon 700x25 going onto a narrow rim. But who in their right mind would use such a tyre is beyond me. The ride must be awful.

[Tuvelo]

I know I'll probably get shot down in flames by some but I do think it is down to technique. When I'm out on club runs and someone gets a puncture and is struggling getting a tyre off or on again someone will usually shout out "pass it to Ian" and I'll have it done in no time WITHOUT using levers. Now having been in the trade for many years of my life I have changed many thousands of tyres so I know what I'm doing, but I can assure you it has nothing to do with having strong thumbs! I've seen people who have broken tyre levers look at me in disbelief as I take their tyre off with my bare hands. Likewise people who can't get there tyre on who then watch me carefully slip the last bit of tyre on without great effort. Some combos are more difficult than others but they are always IME heavy tyres particularly narrow ones because they aren't very supple. Probably the hardest one I've come across in recent years was a Schwalbe Marathon 700x25 going onto a narrow rim. But who in their right mind would use such a tyre is beyond me. The ride must be awful.

The AA guns may be primed, but remain unfired (at least by me).
To a great extent I agree, technique is critical, and experience means a lot - I'm in a similar position to you (trade, rarely use levers etc), but I think it's important to recognise that not only are certain combinations going to be tighter (tubeless rims and tyres in general, Brompton wheels + Marathon Plus ?) but the typical cyclist only changing tyres occasionally and particularly those with smaller hands are more likely to struggle.
Hence my question - assuming we've done what we can to improve technique, we're using the best and most appropriate tools, the rims are not going to change, which tyres are most likely to restore the joy to the prospect of a solo spin for her?

[iandusud]

I know I'll probably get shot down in flames by some but I do think it is down to technique. When I'm out on club runs and someone gets a puncture and is struggling getting a tyre off or on again someone will usually shout out "pass it to Ian" and I'll have it done in no time WITHOUT using levers. Now having been in the trade for many years of my life I have changed many thousands of tyres so I know what I'm doing, but I can assure you it has nothing to do with having strong thumbs! I've seen people who have broken tyre levers look at me in disbelief as I take their tyre off with my bare hands. Likewise people who can't get there tyre on who then watch me carefully slip the last bit of tyre on without great effort. Some combos are more difficult than others but they are always IME heavy tyres particularly narrow ones because they aren't very supple. Probably the hardest one I've come across in recent years was a Schwalbe Marathon 700x25 going onto a narrow rim. But who in their right mind would use such a tyre is beyond me. The ride must be awful.

The AA guns may be primed, but remain unfired (at least by me).
To a great extent I agree, technique is critical, and experience means a lot - I'm in a similar position to you (trade, rarely use levers etc), but I think it's important to recognise that not only are certain combinations going to be tighter (tubeless rims and tyres in general, Brompton wheels + Marathon Plus ?) but the typical cyclist only changing tyres occasionally and particularly those with smaller hands are more likely to struggle.
Hence my question - assuming we've done what we can to improve technique, we're using the best and most appropriate tools, the rims are not going to change, which tyres are most likely to restore the joy to the prospect of a solo spin for her?

Well the technique is teachable and when one of my daughters bought a road bike last year, and knowing that she would be taking it back down to London for commuting, I taught her how to replace an inner tube. In no time at all she had mastered removing and fitting a tyre and tube with no levers on 25mm tyres on narrow rims. She is the least practical of my five children and she can do it. (Good teacher ).

[nez]

I know I'll probably get shot down in flames by some but I do think it is down to technique. When I'm out on club runs and someone gets a puncture and is struggling getting a tyre off or on again someone will usually shout out "pass it to Ian" and I'll have it done in no time WITHOUT using levers. Now having been in the trade for many years of my life I have changed many thousands of tyres so I know what I'm doing, but I can assure you it has nothing to do with having strong thumbs! I've seen people who have broken tyre levers look at me in disbelief as I take their tyre off with my bare hands. Likewise people who can't get there tyre on who then watch me carefully slip the last bit of tyre on without great effort. Some combos are more difficult than others but they are always IME heavy tyres particularly narrow ones because they aren't very supple. Probably the hardest one I've come across in recent years was a Schwalbe Marathon 700x25 going onto a narrow rim. But who in their right mind would use such a tyre is beyond me. The ride must be awful.

I can put almost all tyres on with my bare hands but the Marathon plus on a Brompton does involve some swearing. It is important to put even the M+ on with no levers of course because of the chance of pinching the inner tube with a lever. I think one of the bits people struggle with is understanding that all of your fingers pulling against the heels of your hands are much stronger than your thumbs. So unless it's a particularly easy one, leave the thumbs out of the last bit getting them on! However, if you can get them all off with no levers, I salute you. That's a technique which would be worth learning.

[nez]

The Schwalbe Marathon / 16" wheel combo is generally regarded as a bit of a challenge - so much so that there are videos on the subject, however don't be too hopeful - the person in the vid. just makes it look easy without offering a secret ingredient!

Brompton rims changed about 10 years ago....the "new" rim (10 years ago) had a sort-of ridge running between the spoke holes.....that rim wasn't too bad for tyre fitting....but the rim it replaced was a swine, fitting a Marathon plus was a 2 man job.

I'm glad you found it difficult - makes me feel better to know an expert struggled. I've only ever done it alone using zip ties of course. I hate using zip ties - it doesn't go well with my inner green. I suppose I should always have toes straps at hand.

ps I bought my Brompton in '95

[ossie]

I was nearly defeated on one occasion at least it felt like that at the time. In a foreign field in a foreign land (France) in the middle of nowhere (somewhere near Bourbon - Lancy) I had a flat. The tyres were Continental Travel Contacts on 26" Mavic 317 rims. After an almighty battle to get the tyre back on using the zip tie method and with both thumbs skinned at that point, I reloaded the bike cycled off only to get another flat 50 yards down the road as I'd missed the second thorn..repeat with no skin on thumbs, it must have taken me two hours plus. Not helped by a night of little sleep on a storm hit camp site the night before I was at a pretty low ebb. Thankyou zip ties, actually thankyou spa for this video (if only it was that simple )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUFVrl0UT4

.

[iandusud]

I was nearly defeated on one occasion at least it felt like that at the time. In a foreign field in a foreign land (France) in the middle of nowhere (somewhere near Bourbon - Lancy) I had a flat. The tyres were Continental Travel Contacts on 26" Mavic 317 rims. After an almighty battle to get the tyre back on using the zip tie method and with both thumbs skinned at that point, I reloaded the bike cycled off only to get another flat 50 yards down the road as I'd missed the second thorn..repeat with no skin on thumbs, it must have taken me two hours plus. Not helped by a night of little sleep on a storm hit camp site the night before I was at a pretty low ebb. Thankyou zip ties, actually thankyou spa for this video (if only it was that simple )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUFVrl0UT4

.

I've just watched that video but I have to disagree that it doesn't matter where you start with fitting the second tyre bead. You should start opposite the valve and finish fitting the bead at the valve. The reason for this is that when pushing the two beads of the tyre into the well you need to get them in as far as they will go and as close together as possible, and the valve will prevent that. Also as stated in the video it is important to avoid trapping the tube as you push the final bit of the bead over. Being able to push the valve up into the tyre, and therefore with it the tube, helps avoid trapping the tube. Whilst I can see how using toe straps or zip ties can help TBH once you've got the tyre on so far as it will go no further the tension will pull the bead down into the well if you go back round the tyre pushing the bead in. It is important to do this on both sides (in the video the demonstrator appears to be only pushing the bead on side that is nearest.

[531colin]

I was nearly defeated on one occasion at least it felt like that at the time. In a foreign field in a foreign land (France) in the middle of nowhere (somewhere near Bourbon - Lancy) I had a flat. The tyres were Continental Travel Contacts on 26" Mavic 317 rims. After an almighty battle to get the tyre back on using the zip tie method and with both thumbs skinned at that point, I reloaded the bike cycled off only to get another flat 50 yards down the road as I'd missed the second thorn..repeat with no skin on thumbs, it must have taken me two hours plus. Not helped by a night of little sleep on a storm hit camp site the night before I was at a pretty low ebb. Thankyou zip ties, actually thankyou spa for this video (if only it was that simple )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUFVrl0UT4

.

I've just watched that video but I have to disagree that it doesn't matter where you start with fitting the second tyre bead. You should start opposite the valve and finish fitting the bead at the valve. The reason for this is that when pushing the two beads of the tyre into the well you need to get them in as far as they will go and as close together as possible, and the valve will prevent that. Also as stated in the video it is important to avoid trapping the tube as you push the final bit of the bead over. Being able to push the valve up into the tyre, and therefore with it the tube, helps avoid trapping the tube. Whilst I can see how using toe straps or zip ties can help TBH once you've got the tyre on so far as it will go no further the tension will pull the bead down into the well if you go back round the tyre pushing the bead in. It is important to do this on both sides (in the video the demonstrator appears to be only pushing the bead on side that is nearest.

Well, the demonstrator was me, 10 or so years ago. We were in Norman's garage...old Spa customers will remember Norman's scots tones over the phone. Norman wanted me to demo. the toestrap trick, because people find it helpful....as you say, once you have got most of the second bead on, then tension in the bead will keep it on. Early on, if you aren't used to doing it, its frustrating to have a stiff tyre flip itself out of the rim.
Of course I only push the bead into the rim well on the side where I'm fitting the bead. What is to be gained by playing about with the bead which is already fitted? Leave it on the bead seat, and the rim well is clear.
There is absolutely no need to "finish at the valve" either. In fact, I usually start at the valve, just to show how little difference it makes. More than 60 years fitting tyres, I'm still looking for that difference.
I used to say "if you can't fit your tyres without levers, you are doing it wrong, simple as that."
Now I say "I have no experience of (or interest in) tubeless tyres, but if you can open a pickle jar unaided you can fit tubed tyres without levers."

[Vorpal]

A couple of years ago, my LBS recommended Maxxis tyres for my tourer. I was a bit skeptical, not having used them before, but I have found them to have good rolling characteristics, good traction & be pretty comfortable. I've use them a fair amount on off-road and messy surfaces, as well as on the road. I had my first puncture on them (a sharp flint) in sloppy early spring conditions this year, and honestly, the best part of them was that they were easiest tyres to seat I have ever come across. It took me under 10 minutes to remove, repair, & replace my inner tube, and that included 5 minutes of time just waiting for the patch glue. I didn't need any tools or toe straps.

I will say that the predecessor tyres (I think they were Continental tour, but somewhat narrower?) weren't awful, but they also weren't *easy*.

[iandusud]

I was nearly defeated on one occasion at least it felt like that at the time. In a foreign field in a foreign land (France) in the middle of nowhere (somewhere near Bourbon - Lancy) I had a flat. The tyres were Continental Travel Contacts on 26" Mavic 317 rims. After an almighty battle to get the tyre back on using the zip tie method and with both thumbs skinned at that point, I reloaded the bike cycled off only to get another flat 50 yards down the road as I'd missed the second thorn..repeat with no skin on thumbs, it must have taken me two hours plus. Not helped by a night of little sleep on a storm hit camp site the night before I was at a pretty low ebb. Thankyou zip ties, actually thankyou spa for this video (if only it was that simple )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUFVrl0UT4

.

I've just watched that video but I have to disagree that it doesn't matter where you start with fitting the second tyre bead. You should start opposite the valve and finish fitting the bead at the valve. The reason for this is that when pushing the two beads of the tyre into the well you need to get them in as far as they will go and as close together as possible, and the valve will prevent that. Also as stated in the video it is important to avoid trapping the tube as you push the final bit of the bead over. Being able to push the valve up into the tyre, and therefore with it the tube, helps avoid trapping the tube. Whilst I can see how using toe straps or zip ties can help TBH once you've got the tyre on so far as it will go no further the tension will pull the bead down into the well if you go back round the tyre pushing the bead in. It is important to do this on both sides (in the video the demonstrator appears to be only pushing the bead on side that is nearest.

Well, the demonstrator was me, 10 or so years ago. We were in Norman's garage...old Spa customers will remember Norman's scots tones over the phone. Norman wanted me to demo. the toestrap trick, because people find it helpful....as you say, once you have got most of the second bead on, then tension in the bead will keep it on. Early on, if you aren't used to doing it, its frustrating to have a stiff tyre flip itself out of the rim.
Of course I only push the bead into the rim well on the side where I'm fitting the bead. What is to be gained by playing about with the bead which is already fitted? Leave it on the bead seat, and the rim well is clear.
There is absolutely no need to "finish at the valve" either. In fact, I usually start at the valve, just to show how little difference it makes. More than 60 years fitting tyres, I'm still looking for that difference.
I used to say "if you can't fit your tyres without levers, you are doing it wrong, simple as that."
Now I say "I have no experience of (or interest in) tubeless tyres, but if you can open a pickle jar unaided you can fit tubed tyres without levers."

Hi Colin, I recognised you in the video and I wasn't being at all disparaging of the idea of using toe straps, particularly for the inexperienced, I was just pointing out that should one be out and about and have a puncture and not have straps or zip ties to hand they are not essential and therefore not to despair. You certainly have more years of experience than me (but not many ) of fitting tyres but I still maintain that I find it easier to fit tyres finishing at the valve for the reason stated above particularly with narrow rims and tyres with a heavy bead. My experience has also taught me that getting both beads into the well helps, but yours may well be different. BTW I haven't seen you recently on the Beryl Burton path. Best wishes, Ian

[Tuvelo]

Ta for the input to my query from a few weeks back - if anyone is still wondering: Conti 5000s were still tight on the tubeless rims but were easier to mount and remove by a factor of lots over the tubeless ready tyres she was running. Using a tyre jack also made a huge difference for someone with smaller hands (she got the BBB one, there are several others using the same principle).