Spa Tourer with flat bars

[Badgerjockey]

I've finished building my Spa steel tourer with flat bars. It's beautiful.

I went with a 54cm model after visiting the shop some while ago and riding a 54 and 57cm model (both drops) and preferring the feel and fit of the 54cm. The chap in the shop (tall bloke, south african?) recommended the 54 for me too which I couldn't argue with. I should say he was very helpful.

I am 6ft, maybe 6ft 1. A touch longer in the leg and arm than the body. So 54 might seem like an odd choice? Perhaps on the cusp. Whatever, it felt good at the time.

When I asked about using it with a flat bar setup, I was told it would be fine with a longer stem.

How critical is the top tube length? It does seem rather short - about 5-6cm shorter than the old bike. With some swept back bars and a 100mm stem (yes, probably too short for swept bars) I am quite upright with twitchy steering. I've got some straighter bars to try which should reduce the need for a ludicrously long stem.

Knowing that I need a long stem to counteract the short top tube (designed for drops), what would be the issue with, say, a 140mm stem? I've not got one to try yet, but other sources suggest it might ruin the steering...? What I don't understand is that if the longer stem is necessary to put your hands in a similar position as the tops/hoods of drop bars when using flats, then surely the steering would be the same as with drops and not suddenly somehow 'awful'?

Finally, I am hoping that I haven't made a terrible boob and bought myself too small/short a frame without properly trying it with flat bars. I guess there is a good reason why Thorn make long versions of all their frames for flat bar setups...

Thanks,
H

[pwa]

I have cycled with a 13cm stem and I have cycled with a 7cm stem, and neither caused me any problems. It might be a different story on a twitchy road race bike, but on a tourer I would just put on whatever stem gave me a good position.

If I were you I would find the longest stem I could. And I'd have a good look to see if there are bars that (from centre to outside) sweep forward a little before sweeping back for the ergonomic hand position.

[PH]

How swept back are the bars and did you tell them at Spa that's what you intended?
I've used a 130 stem, apart from the aesthetics, which probably no one but me noticed, it was fine, though I didn't like adding a bar bag. I've used straight bars on a couple of bikes intended for drops, as long as the weight distribution has been about the same they've been fine. How does it compare to your other bikes? Might it just be the unfamiliar? It's sometimes taken me a few hundred miles to get on with bikes that I've gone on to really like. Certainly wouldn't be talking in terms of mistake till I'd got some miles in.

[Jay Gee]

Here is my Spa tourer with On-one 'Mary' bars. It had drops originally, but after a while I had to admit that the reach was just a bit too far for me, even with a really short stem. Now it has a very long stem! The position is a satisfying 'just right' feel for me now.

[fastpedaller]

I have a 54cm Spa Tourer and use it with either flat or drop bars - whichever take my fancy! I have the bars set up with changers and all the cables, so (with a threadless headset/ stem) it's only a few minutes to change over. One question I would ask is why are you trying to achieve a 'drop bar on hoods' position with straight bars? I quite like straight bars, but the riding style is different (and IMHO intended to be) compared to drop bars. I'd suggest 'on the hoods' is a halfway point towards being on the drops. BTW I am only 5ft 9 and i realise some would suggest a 51cm may have suited me better, but I was happy to have the slightly higher head tube and less spacers.

[irc]

it shouldn't be a dealbreaker. THere is only 13mm difference in top tubelength.

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/smsimg/uploa ... ometry.jpg

For what it is worth I always set up my flat bar bike with the same distance from saddle to bars. But then I ride mainly on the hoods or corners of drops and my flats always have bar ends which give a similar riding position.

I'm 6ft3 and my 57cm Spa Tourer is a good fit.

[gregoryoftours]

I'd also recommend on one Mary bars if that's the sort of sweep you're after. They sweep as much forward as they do back, so you don't really lose any reach in comparison to a straight bar. It does mean that fitting or lights accessories can be a pain though, with no straight section of bar that mounts something pointing straight ahead.

[531colin]

Bicycle steering is to some extent self-centering; the force is tyre drag, trail is the "lever" through which the force operates (trail aka caster)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_and_motorcycle_geometry.
Try a "thought experiment" . Ride your bike no hands. Now change the handlebar shape, and ride it again no hands.
How was it for you?

When riding normally, the steering "feel" is governed by how much weight you put on the front tyre, because more weight equals more tyre drag. Everything else is pure nonsense. (For example, it doesn't matter if you move your hands by changing the bar shape or by changing the stem length.)
However, nobody reports that their steering feels light riding on the tops of their drops, just right when riding on the hoods, and too heavy when riding on the hooks; in other words, you have to move your hands a long way to make a noticeable difference. (also, nobody reports a difference in steering feel depending on how hard they are pedalling, and that certainly alters how much weight you put on your hands.) So changing the stem length 2cm won't "ruin the handling" of your megabucks TdF lookalike.

Badger Jockey's 54 cm bike would probably have been built as a "tester" in the shop with drops and a stem in the range 8 to 10 cm, so with swept flats and 10cm stem the riders hands are a long long way further back than with 10cm stem and hands on the hoods. (It'll still ride the same no hands though, and the effect on the steering of bumps and camber changes will be the same) If you like to ride like that, you will quickly get used to that steering feel; and the bike won't dump you on the ground the first time you come upon a slimy, gravelly, twisty descent with adverse camber bends, because its basically a stable bike.

Jay Gee's photo of his Spa bike is disconcertingly distorted by the camera lens, but his grips are about level with the front hub; not too different from where the hoods come.

Agreed that a bar bag on a 130mm stem is "interesting"

These days arthritic hands prevent me riding either drops or flats....here is my solution on my Elan..

IMG_5137 by 531colin, on Flickr

Again, a bit distorted, but the grip section is somewhere near the front hub, just like the hoods would be.
When I could use flats and drops, I used to set up so the hoods and (flat bar) ends were about the same reach.

[cycle tramp]

These days arthritic hands prevent me riding either drops or flats....here is my solution on my Elan..

IMG_5137 by 531colin, on Flickr

Having spent the last year and a bit playing with different handlebars, I've think I've worked out that what I'm looking for is something like a reversed north road handle bar or may be a set of Moulton mosquito handlebars... I really like the look of those handlebars - can I ask if they were home built and if so what materials you used?

[531colin]

Yeah, home made. So far I found the bit about mitering the tube https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=49335&start=15
Made from stainless tube ordered from Metal Mania. (Metals 4U at Wetherby is just down the road from me, but I had too many bad experiences)
25.4mm tube for the crosspiece, 22.2 for the grips, because I thought I wanted "straight bar" size grips.....it mostly doesn't matter, because in the end I used the D/T levers on a mount. Maybe I never got round to writing it up? It doesn't come up when I search my posts for "bullbars"

[bohrsatom]

I’m 6 foot 1 with a 57cm flat bar steel tourer and sometimes I wish I’d gone for the 60cm! (although I never had an opportunity for a test ride)

[philkeeble]

I have a Hewitt Cheviot SE tourer fitted with a 130 mm stem. Never had any issue with it. And I have other bikes with a variety of stem lengths with which to compare, but have never come across any handling issues. All are sized for a comfortable reach. Shorter stems give quicker steering but that's not an issue on a touring bike. As has been mentioned elsewhere, the only downside of a longer stem is if you fit a heavy bar bag as it will swing side-to-side more than on a shorter stem.

Phil

[531colin]

.... Shorter stems give quicker steering......

Not a universal truth.
If your Cheviot has 130mm stem and straight bars, and you fitted an 80mm stem and drop bars, then your steering "on the hoods" would be "slower" than your steering with straights.

[philkeeble]

.... Shorter stems give quicker steering......

Not a universal truth.
If your Cheviot has 130mm stem and straight bars, and you fitted an 80mm stem and drop bars, then your steering "on the hoods" would be "slower" than your steering with straights.

Fair comment, I meant with a given set of bars the shorter the stem the quicker the steering. My Hewitt has Humpert Vario bars (like flat bars with built in bar ends)

Phil