Shimano FH-M525A - buy spare or another?

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mikeymo
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Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Shimano FH-M525A - buy spare or another?

Post by mikeymo »

So, the wheels that Spa built for me have M525A hubs. It seems that replacement freehubs for the rear are made out of unobtanium. In fact it's actually cheaper, and easier, to buy a whole new hub (there are still a small number available) than a freehub, if you can find one.

I'm not having any problems so far with mine. But I'm keen to future-proof my set up. My options are:

1. Buy a NOS FH-M525A, principally so I've got a replacement freehub. And the other bits and pieces come as extras.

2. Wait until it actually does need replacement, then buy a new, different (better?) hub and get that laced into the wheel. And buy a spare freehub at the same time.

I don't mind spending money now so that I have easy access to spares at some unspecified time in the future. I've already done a bit of that with shifters and derailleurs.

In terms of longevity, this is a road bike with mudguards. I avoid cycling in poor weather, don't do massive mileage, and don't commute. I don't mind maintenance and have a huge variety of lubricants that I apply where necessary. So lubricating (or attempting to) the freehub once in a while is something I'm quite happy to do.

Thanks.
rogerzilla
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Re: Shimano FH-M525A - buy spare or another?

Post by rogerzilla »

Freehubs are always priced high, probably because the seller knows you probably don't want to rebuild the whole wheel.

I'd take option 2, but try to look after the existing freehub. They are not always easy to lubricate, but it will stave off rust if you can get some oil in there.
zenitb
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Get the hub :-)

Post by zenitb »

Buying another hub gives you more options.

- if the freehub fails you can replace just the freehub
- If some catastrophic event overtook the balls/cones in the existing hub you could replace the whole hub (rebuilding the wheel but using the same spokes and rim )
- If you were going on a long tour and just wanted to refresh the hub you could swap the freehub and internals (so three of the four bearing races) giving you a "nearly new" hub for the tour.
- If the wheel in general was looking battered you could use the hub to build a complete new wheel in parallel, then just swap it over - keeping the FH-M525 benefits of large flanges,reasonable spoke angles, and good seals (rather than having to buy some MicroSpline sealed bearing contraption, or a down market poorly sealed Shimano HG hub "because you only get 8/9/10/11 speed HG hubs in Altus now"

I'm a natural hoarder anyway (I already have an FH-M525 AND a FH-M756 in my gear stash) so I am always going to say "buy the hub" - especially if its at a decent price now... I am not sure we are going to be spoiled with great loose bearing hubs at pocket money prices for much longer..?

(Disclaimer - I also hoard rims ... and now spokes :-) :-) :-) )
mikeymo
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Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Re: Get the hub :-)

Post by mikeymo »

zenitb wrote: 6 Apr 2021, 4:48pm Buying another hub gives you more options.

- if the freehub fails you can replace just the freehub
- If some catastrophic event overtook the balls/cones in the existing hub you could replace the whole hub (rebuilding the wheel but using the same spokes and rim )
- If you were going on a long tour and just wanted to refresh the hub you could swap the freehub and internals (so three of the four bearing races) giving you a "nearly new" hub for the tour.
- If the wheel in general was looking battered you could use the hub to build a complete new wheel in parallel, then just swap it over - keeping the FH-M525 benefits of large flanges,reasonable spoke angles, and good seals (rather than having to buy some MicroSpline sealed bearing contraption, or a down market poorly sealed Shimano HG hub "because you only get 8/9/10/11 speed HG hubs in Altus now"

I'm a natural hoarder anyway (I already have an FH-M525 AND a FH-M756 in my gear stash) so I am always going to say "buy the hub" - especially if its at a decent price now... I am not sure we are going to be spoiled with great loose bearing hubs at pocket money prices for much longer..?

(Disclaimer - I also hoard rims ... and now spokes :-) :-) :-) )
Thanks. As you have both, do you think the M756 is a big step up in quality/longevity from the M525? M756 are available, as are spare freehubs for them.
PH
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Re: Shimano FH-M525A - buy spare or another?

Post by PH »

If you get another bike and use them alternately they'll both last twice as long.
Do whatever makes you happy of course, I suspect if you buy a spare hub or two, they'll probably be easy to sell if you never end up using them. But where do you stop? I've had to replace more frames than freehubs.
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531colin
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Re: Shimano FH-M525A - buy spare or another?

Post by 531colin »

Is that the Deore 6 bolt disc hub with the steel axle?
EDIT.....Sorry, its the XT ones I have.
Maintenance schedule and how to adjust the cones properly is all here...viewtopic.php?f=5&t=143125
(and about 74 other places on these boards as well)
Set the bearing pre-load so that there is a trace of slack with the wheel out of the bike which just disappears when you do up the Q/R.....or make yourself a "hub vise" ...also on that thread.
Lube the driveside with semi-fluid grease and that bleeds into the freewheel.
Annual maintenance; and I have never, ever worn one out......or replaced bearings/cones/anything.
mikeymo
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Re: Shimano FH-M525A - buy spare or another?

Post by mikeymo »

PH wrote: 6 Apr 2021, 5:09pm If you get another bike and use them alternately they'll both last twice as long.
Do whatever makes you happy of course, I suspect if you buy a spare hub or two, they'll probably be easy to sell if you never end up using them. But where do you stop? I've had to replace more frames than freehubs.
Yes, I know what you mean.

I've mentioned before, in discussion about other components, buying "backups". I'm sure some of the other forum members think I'm slightly dotty in my obsession about this. They may be right. I collected all the other backup components I've got the other day and was slightly alarmed at the collection. 3 spare pairs of shifters, 4 spare RDs, two spare FDs. Some of it fairly "high end".

I do then end up in a rather curious position. I changed my STIs recently for Ultegra ST-6510s. I bought some used ones, which work perfectly. I also bought some NOS ones (at considerable expense, as you can imagine). Which I now daren't put on! Ditto an RD-M772. However, if I never use them, I am positive I'll be able to sell them, and quite possibly for more than I paid.

My objective though is, having found a setup I like (nine speed triple), to keep it running, and for any replacement or renewal to be as straightforward as possible. A rather glib - "I can still get xxx speed thingumajigs" - type comment is often read. I'm not so sure. I saw XT RD-M772s disappear from retailers over a relatively short period (I think I got the last retail NOS in the country, possibly the world).

Hence my idea of possibly buying a different hub, and spare freehubs with it.

Of course "where do you stop?", is a perfectly valid question. Really I should have bought spare hoods for my Sora shifters, along with the shifters, for instance.

But as my preferred setup - nine speed triple - may well be on the way out, I would like to know that in 5/10/15 years, when/if component X fails, I can simply open the box and fish out the spare, swap it over, and go on my way, rather than start scrabbling round the dusty corners of the internet and/or try to work out from Shimano charts if part number XXX will work or if it's an A or a B match, and so on.

Cheers.
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531colin
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Re: Shimano FH-M525A - buy spare or another?

Post by 531colin »

I have enough spare transmission bits to last several lifetimes. (That isn't necessarily long, at my age)
But I should have been hoarding tyres.....the original Marathon with the Kevlar strip, not the horrid stodgy Greenguard junk. Best roughstuff tyre!
mikeymo
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Re: Shimano FH-M525A - buy spare or another?

Post by mikeymo »

531colin wrote: 6 Apr 2021, 5:17pm Is that the Deore 6 bolt disc hub with the steel axle?
EDIT.....Sorry, its the XT ones I have.
Maintenance schedule and how to adjust the cones properly is all here...viewtopic.php?f=5&t=143125
(and about 74 other places on these boards as well)
Set the bearing pre-load so that there is a trace of slack with the wheel out of the bike which just disappears when you do up the Q/R.....or make yourself a "hub vise" ...also on that thread.
Lube the driveside with semi-fluid grease and that bleeds into the freewheel.
Annual maintenance; and I have never, ever worn one out......or replaced bearings/cones/anything.
Thanks, will investigate lube procedures.

Depending when you stopped working to take up a life of gay retired abandon, you may well have built my wheels. Whether or not, they're very nice.

Yes, I've got the slightly cheaper M525A, which I read some poor reports of. But then I'm sure there are forums on the internet where you can read how rubbish Rolls Royce cars are and everybody should buy a Lada.
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531colin
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Re: Shimano FH-M525A - buy spare or another?

Post by 531colin »

I've been retired nearly 9 years....where the heck has that gone!
Builder's name is usually on a sticker on the wheel rim.
fastpedaller
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Location: Norfolk

Re: Shimano FH-M525A - buy spare or another?

Post by fastpedaller »

I have 5 x 7 speed hubs and 3x8 speed hubs squirrelled away! along with 10 cassettes. :D :D
slowster
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Re: Shimano FH-M525A - buy spare or another?

Post by slowster »

Surly's new Disc Trucker requires thru axle hubs. If others follow where they lead (and they might be forced to if Shimano discontinue more of their traditional QR hub models), people with a lifetime's stock of spare hubs might find that they should also have bought some spare frames as well.

In fact when you also consider the reduction in choice of rims for rim braked bikes etc., maybe to be on the safe side they should buy some spare bikes. Eventually when they go on tour, if they have a major breakdown no bike shop will have suitable replacement parts anymore. So for touring they will also need a trailer on which they can carry a spare bike.
fastpedaller
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Re: Shimano FH-M525A - buy spare or another?

Post by fastpedaller »

You have made a good point there :wink:
Cyckelgalen
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Re: Shimano FH-M525A - buy spare or another?

Post by Cyckelgalen »

This German online shop has the rear hub 525A for 35 euros. The freehub goes for 20, so I would buy a whole hub for a few quid more and get all the spares, cones and bearings may come handy at some stage.
The site is only in German but they answer mails and queries in English.

https://www.kurbelix.de/hinterradnabe-s ... isc-6-loch

Bear in mind that M525 and M525A are quite different, the former being better in one crucial feature at least, better seals. I assume the original M525 is more dificult to find. For some reason Shimano made newer iterations of several hubs with the A suffix and none of them seem to be an improvement on the original hub. Appart from having inferior seals, the cones are not compatible I believe. M756 and M756A is another example.
It'd less confusing if they had called the newer versions something completly different.
zenitb
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Longevity - FH-M756 vs FH-M525A

Post by zenitb »

mikeymo wrote: 6 Apr 2021, 4:56pm
zenitb wrote: 6 Apr 2021, 4:48pm Buying another hub gives you more options.

- if the freehub fails you can replace just the freehub
- If some catastrophic event overtook the balls/cones in the existing hub you could replace the whole hub (rebuilding the wheel but using the same spokes and rim )
- If you were going on a long tour and just wanted to refresh the hub you could swap the freehub and internals (so three of the four bearing races) giving you a "nearly new" hub for the tour.
- If the wheel in general was looking battered you could use the hub to build a complete new wheel in parallel, then just swap it over - keeping the FH-M525 benefits of large flanges,reasonable spoke angles, and good seals (rather than having to buy some MicroSpline sealed bearing contraption, or a down market poorly sealed Shimano HG hub "because you only get 8/9/10/11 speed HG hubs in Altus now"

I'm a natural hoarder anyway (I already have an FH-M525 AND a FH-M756 in my gear stash) so I am always going to say "buy the hub" - especially if its at a decent price now... I am not sure we are going to be spoiled with great loose bearing hubs at pocket money prices for much longer..?

(Disclaimer - I also hoard rims ... and now spokes :-) :-) :-) )
Thanks. As you have both, do you think the M756 is a big step up in quality/longevity from the M525? M756 are available, as are spare freehubs for them.
I don't know about you Mikey but one of the things that has always hacked me off with Cycling magazines/online reviewers etc is the "badge zealots" who, with zero actual knowledge of the parts concerned, boiler plate in comments like "XT is a little bit better than Deore", "Ultegra will be smoother than 105", while being too lazy to actually check whether their "journalism" has any factual basis. I first saw this in MBUK back in the 1990s but without the Internet it was hard to refute these "experts". However now we have the internet .... :-)

The FH-M756 and the FH-M525 have exactly the same contact sealing (labyrinth and contact sealing for the hub, contact sealing for the freewheel), the same bearing specification (CBN = Cubic Boron Nitride treated) and have exactly the same part number (Y00091310) for the 1/4" hub ball bearings used. So I am assuming the main differences are the finish and the extra machining that goes into the FH-M756 hub to pare away excess metal behind the disc bolts and to cut/cast the cutouts in the flanges (to save a tiny amount of weight). [I will get them out in a mo and compare/upload the finish diferences]

I am posting up the Shimano comparison table where they show what goes into each hub and you should be able to see that once you get to a certain level (roughly "Deore") then the cones are tagged CBN. This then doesnt get any better until XTR and Saint groupsets where the cups are listed as "grinding" or "ground" (I am assuming this means polished) and stainless steel ball bearings are specified.
XT bearings and seals
XT bearings and seals
Deore bearings and seals
Deore bearings and seals
UPDATE: The snips above are from a doc I have downloaded from https://productinfo.shimano.com/#/archive
Go to this page and download the 2014-2015 specifications .. this then shows what you get for your money in all the Shimano hubs for that model year and this includes the two hubs we are comparing here.
XT balls
XT balls
Deore balls
Deore balls
PS missing Brucey's input on this - he would have been all over this one :-(
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