V brake with Skid Control!?

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Mick F
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Re: V brake with Skid Control!?

Post by Mick F »

So ............... why does this H M L thing exist?

Either V brakes are a good idea, or they're not.
Give me calliper brakes any time.
Mick F. Cornwall
zenitb
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Re: V brake with Skid Control!?

Post by zenitb »

The Dia Compe VC-733 and the Dia-Compe MX-2 SEEM to be the same brake although its not sold with the anti-skid any more

See what you think ... hey .. you could even get it in red :-)
Dia-Compe MX-2
Dia-Compe MX-2
If you click the "silver front" brake below you can see its even marked Dia Compe VC-733 so just buy a new brake without the silly anti-skid plate ?

https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Dia-Compe-MX-2 ... LkQAvD_BwE#
rjb
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Re: V brake with Skid Control!?

Post by rjb »

It may be an after market addition to simulate the Shimano servo wave action levers.
https://www.mtbr.com/threads/servo-wave-action.716902/
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
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fausto99
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Re: V brake with Skid Control!?

Post by fausto99 »

zenitb wrote: 9 May 2021, 12:19am The Dia Compe VC-733 and the Dia-Compe MX-2 SEEM to be the same brake although its not sold with the anti-skid any more
If you click the "silver front" brake below you can see its even marked Dia Compe VC-733 so just buy a new brake without the silly anti-skid plate ?
Useful to know.

However, my friend is used to the feel of the brakes and has no problem with their stopping power. He just thought that the lever travel needed investigating.

OTOH, I wanted to know if the H M L markings meant the "bite point" could be adjusted. That remains to be answered.
colin54
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Re: V brake with Skid Control!?

Post by colin54 »

I noticed this on a 1998 Saracen mountain bike of my brother's, 'Dia-Compe Power Control' , it looks like they are doing the same adjustment at the handlebar lever on this one.There's a little toggle that rotates possibly (second picture), note H (for high (?) in first picture), I didn't mess with them.
I've never noticed the need for this on my V brake bikes, you notice the lessening of power when going from V's on a flat bar to V's on drop bar (same bike with correct pull levers). I like V brakes, pretty fuss free.
I think that's an allen key adjuster for spring tension to centre the brake in the last picture. Dia-Compe Versa Control 747 calipers.
Edit , I note that the allen bolt on the caliper had L-H written on it too (similar to the O.P's), after clicking to enlarge the picture!
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gregoryoftours
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Re: V brake with Skid Control!?

Post by gregoryoftours »

The power control lever is a simple mechanical advantage adjustment. Potentially useful, especially if you are mixing and matching different calipers front and rear.

The skid control on the v-brake is different and largely acts like those power modulator noodles with a spring inside, introducing sponginess into the system in an attempt to lessen the likelihood of inexperienced operators locking the front wheel. Largely a bad idea I'd say.

It's hard to see clearly but it looks like the h/m/l adjustment on the skid control is supposed to change how much sponge is added to the feel/power application once the pads have contact with the rim. I doubt that it would adjust the initial bite point.

I think it was a concern back in the day with the 'insane' power of new v-brakes that people wouldn't be used to control the power on tap and so skid control/modulators came out of that. Still used on kids bikes where it makes sense somewhat.
colin54
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Re: V brake with Skid Control!?

Post by colin54 »

gregoryoftours wrote: 9 May 2021, 12:08pm The power control lever is a simple mechanical advantage adjustment. Potentially useful, especially if you are mixing and matching different calipers front and rear.
Thanks gregory, that's interesting.
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gregoryoftours
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Re: V brake with Skid Control!?

Post by gregoryoftours »

colin54 wrote: 9 May 2021, 5:16pm
gregoryoftours wrote: 9 May 2021, 12:08pm The power control lever is a simple mechanical advantage adjustment. Potentially useful, especially if you are mixing and matching different calipers front and rear.
Thanks gregory, that's interesting.
It's similar on many different types of lever, like Avid speed dial models and Shimano levers like the ones up-thread. Many fairly cheap brake levers have two interchangeable positions for the cable anchor, often labelled 'v' and 'c' for v-brakes or cantis. Some really cheap ones have no adjustment, but 2 holes in the lever and the cable yoke is riveted into the hole that gives the cable pull intended for the type of brake.
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gregoryoftours
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Re: V brake with Skid Control!?

Post by gregoryoftours »

Actually I'm not sure if the 'power control' on your levers refers to the ability to adjust the mechanical advantage, although it does have that feature. I have some dia-compe power control levers that have no user adjustment of mechanical advantage/cable pull. Instead the cable anchor has a roller attached that runs along a profiled ramp inside the lever to give variable mechanical advantage over the range of throw of the lever. It's a similar mechanism to Shimano's 'servo wave' technology, I think.
colin54
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Re: V brake with Skid Control!?

Post by colin54 »

There's a time-line of Dia-Compe / Cane Creek components here at Mombat Bicycles.
The O.P's brakes VC733 are mentioned in the 1999 product summary 'Skid Control mechanism (like anti-lock brakes)' it says.
The ones on my brother's bike are mentioned in the 1997 summary (it's a 1997 bike not '98 as I mistakenly wrote up-thread).
PC(Power Control)-7 EXA......'dual leverage adjustment for LAC or canti'.

http://mombatbicycles.com/MOMBAT/BikeHi ... Creek.html
There's a some new sets of these levers for sale on ebay with a tantalisingly incomplete couple of bits of the original instructions on show.
They seem to be slightly at odds with the summary I quoted from in the link.
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https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253749315934 ... SwhOpbSGZ6
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NickJP
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Re: V brake with Skid Control!?

Post by NickJP »

rogerzilla wrote: 8 May 2021, 1:00pmRoad bikes don't use V-brakes because it's hard to make a good drop bar lever with twice the normal cable pull.
On my touring bike - with standard drop bar levers - I use v-brakes with travel agents. The combination works well.
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Mike_Ayling
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Re: V brake with Skid Control!?

Post by Mike_Ayling »

Mick F wrote: 8 May 2021, 8:04pm So ............... why does this H M L thing exist?

Either V brakes are a good idea, or they're not.
Give me calliper brakes any time.
You cannot run wide tyres with caliper brakes, they don't fit inside the calipers!
rogerzilla
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Re: V brake with Skid Control!?

Post by rogerzilla »

That's what centre-pulls were for!
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