Tiagara 10s 4603 STI levers / spyre cable disc brake compatibility.

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PT1029
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Tiagara 10s 4603 STI levers / spyre cable disc brake compatibility.

Post by PT1029 »

Tiagara 10s 4603 (I think) STI levers and TRP spyre cable disc brake compatibility.
Parts as originally fitted on a Ridgeback tourer, a few years old (lever works an XT rear mech), all in fair order.
New brake cables (compressionless brake outer), same pads as before (not much wear). The brakes work in a tolerable manner at best, but not much bite at all, I would want more for a laden tourer. The (2nd) owner said they never (with the old cables) were that good/powerful. We both know the original owner who looked after it.

Any offers on the reasons for lack of power? Have TRP tried a compromise between the various Shimano "road" cable pull standards floating about (SSLR and NSSLR or what ever they are),.
audaxjk
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Joined: 2 Mar 2020, 4:45pm

Re: Tiagara 10s 4603 STI levers / spyre cable disc brake compatibility.

Post by audaxjk »

I had Spyres with Shimano 105 STIs on my commuting bike for a few years. Like you, I was a bit underwhelmed by the braking experience.
It was improved a fair bit by switching to SwissStop pads, I used sintered ones for harder wear, but I believe that organic ones give better modulation at the expense of wear. In addition, I regularly adjusted the pistons on both sides of the rotor (easily done with an Allen key, bike stand also helps) to keep them as close to the rotor as possible without rubbing.
Ultimately, I switched to a hydraulic set up mostly because I found the cable discs were poor in wet weather.
Incidentally, I have Spyre cable discs on a bike with flat bar levers and they work really well. I think it is easier to exert more force on the pistons with less finger effort in this position.
gregoryoftours
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Re: Tiagara 10s 4603 STI levers / spyre cable disc brake compatibility.

Post by gregoryoftours »

Those levers are NSSLR which is the weaker end of what is said to work with the calipers. Older SLR or super SLR will be stronger. It may also help to change pads/rotors, and careful cable fitting is especially important with these brakes, as well as using compressionless. You'll lose power through mounts that aren't faced square.

It could also be that you have one of the quite common badly manufactured sets of calipers (I have one set that's ok and one that is not) where the pistons aren't quite parallel to each other resulting in less than impressive performance. Someone was talking recently about another potential problem where ball bearings inside the caliper can be displaced that can also cause the pistons not to be parallel with each other. If your pistons/pads aren't completely parallel it can take quite a bit of wear to the pads before there is good surface area contact with the rotors.

You could also try experimenting with the cable/pad adjust to change the angle of the actuation arms at the bite point. It will be at its strongest where the arm is perpendicular to the cable or just short of, so that it's perpendicular as you apply more pressure to the brake levers.
Last edited by gregoryoftours on 9 May 2021, 6:32pm, edited 1 time in total.
slowster
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Re: Tiagara 10s 4603 STI levers / spyre cable disc brake compatibility.

Post by slowster »

If the pads are the organic version, it might be that they have become 'glazed'. If so you can probably sand the surface and then bed the pads in again.
PT1029
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Re: Tiagara 10s 4603 STI levers / spyre cable disc brake compatibility.

Post by PT1029 »

Thanks chaps.
The pads look little worn (they looked as fat as some new Shimano pads). They are evenly (un)worn so I would say the caliper/pad alignment is good.
The pads (not sure if original or replacements - I'll ask) have a red back to them, if that rings a bell with anyone.
The owner has some spare Shimano pads (metallic I think), so might be worth a try, as might checking/deglazing the existing ones.
Angling the arm to be perpendicular to the cable sounds a good check (I can't remember the angle, bike isn't here).
gregoryoftours
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Re: Tiagara 10s 4603 STI levers / spyre cable disc brake compatibility.

Post by gregoryoftours »

Make sure your rotors aren't for resin pads only if you intend to try the sintered.
audaxjk
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Joined: 2 Mar 2020, 4:45pm

Re: Tiagara 10s 4603 STI levers / spyre cable disc brake compatibility.

Post by audaxjk »

I think the red backed pads are the stock Spyre ones : (https://www.amazon.co.uk/TRP-Spyre-Para ... B00GHPRDNE) as mine came with them.
iandusud
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Re: Tiagara 10s 4603 STI levers / spyre cable disc brake compatibility.

Post by iandusud »

gregoryoftours wrote: 9 May 2021, 5:35pm You could also try experimenting with the cable/pad adjust to change the angle of the actuation arms at the bite point. It will be at its strongest where the arm is perpendicular to the cable or just short of, so that it's perpendicular as you apply more pressure to the brake levers.
I have found this to be critical to getting the best out of them. I also use Discobrakes Copper-Free pads.
Eyebrox
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Re: Tiagara 10s 4603 STI levers / spyre cable disc brake compatibility.

Post by Eyebrox »

I have had a lot of experience with Spyre brakes on my own bike and other people's bikes. I have tried various adjustments to increase braking power, including all of the above. Not much difference in performance between Shimano organic pads and the stock TRP ones. A bit of cable preload has helped (contrary to manufacturer's instructions) as has realigning the calipers and fine tuning the piston reach with a 3mm hex key. I have also removed the pistons and syringed in a smidgen of copper grease to the bearings. Again not favoured by TRP. The biggest improvement in performance came when I changed the cables to the compressionless variety - but I also changed the cable routing slightly on front and rear. I ran the cables with fewer bends, diverting off the line originally set up for the bike by Giant. The brakes are as fierce at stopping now as hydraulic systems and better when new. I believe the rerouting of the cable (bypassing cable holders on the frame) has been responsible for the huge improvement. The bike shop were helpful after I bought the bike but they couldn't quite get the braking performance up to scratch My gearing is Tiagra 4700 (double chainring).
gregoryoftours
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Re: Tiagara 10s 4603 STI levers / spyre cable disc brake compatibility.

Post by gregoryoftours »

It's interesting to know about the cable routing, I'll have to experiment with mine.
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LinusR
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Re: Tiagara 10s 4603 STI levers / spyre cable disc brake compatibility.

Post by LinusR »

I'm using TRP Spyres with Tiagra 4700 levers which are also NSSLR on the rear of my CX bike with 140mm discs. Once I had them adjusted properly (a fiddle) they are fine. I can lock the back wheel without too much effort. I use BB7s on the front and I'd say they were slightly better in performance. I don't think my cables are anything special. They are what came with the bike five years ago. The TRP Spyres and BB7s replaced the original calipers (Promax Render) which were very poor. I think I'm still using the original pads on the TRP Spyres.
PT1029
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Re: Tiagara 10s 4603 STI levers / spyre cable disc brake compatibility.

Post by PT1029 »

Update.
We have not tried new pads yet. I filed the old pads back to new material, then ran the pads in (repeated (24 or so times) soft application of brakes, releasing before completely stopping). The brakes certainly improved a bit after that.
I then rode my bike (Mk 1 (wide) XT cantilevers) and thought they were a lot better than the Spyre discs.
slowster
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Re: Tiagara 10s 4603 STI levers / spyre cable disc brake compatibility.

Post by slowster »

PT1029 wrote: 23 May 2021, 7:51pmthen ran the pads in (repeated (24 or so times) soft application of brakes
Soft application? If the pads are organic they should be subjected to hard braking repeated several times, whereas soft braking with new pads is likely to cause them to glaze instead. Brucey's explanation of the process here: viewtopic.php?p=1388427#p1388427
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