A first!

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cyclop
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Joined: 3 Oct 2013, 7:49am
Location: Dumfriesshire

A first!

Post by cyclop »

55yrs ago,I took my first freewheel apart and put it together again using a cotton thread to hold the pawls in.This week,after replacing a freehub,I decided to try and take one apart after reading threads on the forum.I made a tool from a socket,using a grinder and a file and let me say I,m not an engineer,just good d.i.y. standard.Here,s the result:
MEMO0004.JPG
MEMO0006.JPG
MEMO0008.JPG
The old socket is 28mm diameter,I filed two flats to accomodate a wrench and I secured the tool onto the lockring located in the freehub,with a nut and bolt with two washers.Securing the tool in the freehub is,I reckon ,crucial for success,making sure to turn it clockwise i.e.left hand thread.Engineering wise,this was rough but it did work.
colin54
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Joined: 24 Sep 2013, 4:34pm

Re: A first!

Post by colin54 »

Nice one. What hub's it off of ?
I'd be interested to see the type of RHS dust shield seal it has.
I neglected a ' Brucey Top-Tip ' which was to knock the seal in a bit first before removing it to break it's bond to the hub shell . I managed to mangle the metal part, even using a blind bearing puller and eventually had to knock it out with a punch.
I've taken apart three Deore LX freehubs recently, the earlier ones had a two piece metal/rubber seal, the more recent a shallower bonded one, I remembered to tap this one in first and it then virtually fell out undamaged.
I'll maybe post a picture of the differences later on.
One thing I did notice was that the thick spacer/shim was perfectly flat one side and slightly radiused the other (where it's punched out from sheet metal when manufactured presumably). I think the flattest side should sit against any thin shim on re-assembly, one of the shims was visibly distorted from bearing against the radiused side in one of the hubs I took apart.
Edit; As you will have seen the thin shims sit on the outside of the hub, again from reading posts by Brucey and others the thinnest of the thin shims (if there is more than one), should sit in the middle of the stack to avoid it being damaged when tightening everything up. Apologies if this is a teaching Grandmother how to suck eggs comment...
Good luck.
Last edited by colin54 on 13 May 2021, 9:32am, edited 1 time in total.
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Stradageek
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Re: A first!

Post by Stradageek »

cyclop wrote: 13 May 2021, 8:30am 55yrs ago,I took my first freewheel apart and put it together again using a cotton thread to hold the pawls in.
The bodge-ability of bikes is one of their major attractions, for me at least.

On a tour of Cornwall, 45 years ago, my non-mechanical partner slowed down ahead of me and said "should this be happening?" as he pedaled rapidly without driving the rear wheel.

A local hardware store lent us a hammer and screwdriver and we sat on the pavement as I hammered off the locking plate on the 6-speed block to reveal corroded and disintegrated pawl springs. We used two chunks of puncture patch in place of the springs then collected all the ball bearings and spacers from the pavement and hammered it back together.

We completed the tour without further incident :D
cyclop
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Joined: 3 Oct 2013, 7:49am
Location: Dumfriesshire

Re: A first!

Post by cyclop »

Stradageek wrote: 13 May 2021, 9:22am
cyclop wrote: 13 May 2021, 8:30am 55yrs ago,I took my first freewheel apart and put it together again using a cotton thread to hold the pawls in.
The bodge-ability of bikes is one of their major attractions, for me at least.

On a tour of Cornwall, 45 years ago, my non-mechanical partner slowed down ahead of me and said "should this be happening?" as he pedaled rapidly without driving the rear wheel.

A local hardware store lent us a hammer and screwdriver and we sat on the pavement as I hammered off the locking plate on the 6-speed block to reveal corroded and disintegrated pawl springs. We used two chunks of puncture patch in place of the springs then collected all the ball bearings and spacers from the pavement and hammered it back together.

We completed the tour without further incident :D
Great bodge!Chapeau.
Same thing happened to me a few years back.Fortunately,I was in Lockerbie near the excellent hardware store ,bought some thin braided wire and "sewed" the cassette to the spokes,making a fixie.Got me home.
cyclop
Posts: 964
Joined: 3 Oct 2013, 7:49am
Location: Dumfriesshire

Re: A first!

Post by cyclop »

colin54 wrote: 13 May 2021, 9:06am Nice one. What hub's it off of ?
I'd be interested to see the type of RHS dust shield seal it has.
I neglected a ' Brucey Top-Tip ' which was to knock the seal in a bit first before removing it to break it's bond to the hub shell . I managed to mangle the metal part, even using a blind bearing puller and eventually had to knock it out with a punch.
I've taken apart three Deore LX freehubs recently, the earlier ones had a two piece metal/rubber seal, the more recent a shallower bonded one, I remembered to tap this one in first and it then virtually fell out undamaged.
I'll maybe post a picture of the differences later on.
One thing I did notice was that the thick spacer/shim was perfectly flat one side and slightly radiused the other (where it's punched out from sheet metal when manufactured presumably). I think the flattest side should sit against any thin shim on re-assembly, one of the shims was visibly distorted from bearing against the radiused side in one of the hubs I took apart.
Edit; As you will have seen the thin shims sit on the outside of the hub, again from reading posts by Brucey and others the thinnest of the thin shims (if there is more than one), should sit in the middle of the stack to avoid it being damaged when tightening everything up. Apologies if this is a teaching Grandmother how to suck eggs comment...
Good luck.
All good info cheers.This was off an xt hub which had been emitting a crack on engaging the drive,which ,I assumed was the freehub and confirmed by swapping the wheel and eliminating the crack.The seal was the metal/rubbery one,removed with 2 screwdrivers with the usual deformation.I flattened it,more or less,and reused it on my spare freehub.Didn,t notice the shim radius thing but will have a look as I kept them.The ratchet grooves looked as if the edges were worn,hence,presumably,the crack as a pawl popped out?or in?Didn,t remember the Brucey tip of tapping in to release the seal,next time though.
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simonineaston
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Re: A first!

Post by simonineaston »

The bodge-ability of bikes is one of their major attractions, for me at least.
You say that - but the newer and more expensive the parts get, the less bodgable they are !! As for my frickin' car, it's not a car anymore, but rather a loudly bleeping computer, with a wheel bolted on at each corner and an ICE wedged tightly into a storage space just in front of my knees...
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
iandusud
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Re: A first!

Post by iandusud »

I remember my first 5 speed "racer" which had a T D Cross freewheel that regularly ate pawls. No problem - just go to the local bike shop and buy some replacements. No wonder TDC went out of business when the likes of Shimano, Maillard etc came along with stuff that was well made. I think those pawls were made out of cheese!
colin54
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Joined: 24 Sep 2013, 4:34pm

Re: A first!

Post by colin54 »

cyclop wrote: 13 May 2021, 2:29pm
Didn,t notice the shim radius thing but will have a look as I kept them.
[/quote]
Flat side
P1130802.JPG
Radiused side and shim it deformed.
P1130809.JPG
It probably makes little difference once it's all nipped up, but was just something I noticed.
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9494arnold
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Re: A first!

Post by 9494arnold »

I have dealt with a couple of non functioning freewheels on CTC rides . A couple of decent zip ties will fix the block/ cassette ( provided it has perforations) to the spokes well enough for gentle fixed wheel drive .
cyclop
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Re: A first!

Post by cyclop »

colin54 wrote: 13 May 2021, 3:20pm
cyclop wrote: 13 May 2021, 2:29pm
Didn,t notice the shim radius thing but will have a look as I kept them.
Flat side
P1130802.JPG
Radiused side and shim it deformed.
P1130809.JPG
It probably makes little difference once it's all nipped up, but was just something I noticed.
[/quote]
Had a look and,yes,thick shim radiused but thin one still flat.
rjb
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Re: A first!

Post by rjb »

The usual trick with a freewheeling freewheel was to bounce the back wheel in the hope that the pawls would drop into position. They often did then the rider could get home but would have to remember not to freewheel. :wink:
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
Jupestar
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Joined: 29 Feb 2020, 3:03pm

Re: A first!

Post by Jupestar »

I built something similar from a piece of old 1 1/8 steer tube, fitted perfectly. Had a star nut but in it which I used for to get a bolt in for turning it.

The problem was the star but would just rotate in the tube. So I had a mate weld it in place.

Not used it in a while, must be buried in my bike draw somewhere.
colin54
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Joined: 24 Sep 2013, 4:34pm

Re: A first!

Post by colin54 »

The two different types of right hand seal I encountered that I mentioned up-thread.
The lighter bonded one may possibly have come out easier anyway without being tapped in first.
It was a loose fit on reassembly, I may try to glue it or spread the outside diameter slightly over a socket to make it a better fit.
P1130847.JPG
I straightened out the metal part of the two-piece one that I damaged, using 1/2" drive sockets of various sizes to re-form the outside and inside diameters.
P1130827.JPG
Edit : link added to a previous forum thread about removing the dust seal, there are also plenty more links within this thread pertaining to freehubs.
As always the forum has back-pedalled this way before !
viewtopic.php?t=111287
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cyclop
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Re: A first!

Post by cyclop »

Good tip with the 1/2in sockets to flatten the seal.
slowster
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Re: A first!

Post by slowster »

colin54 wrote: 14 May 2021, 10:04am Edit : link added to a previous forum thread about removing the dust seal, there are also plenty more links within this thread pertaining to freehubs.
As always the forum has back-pedalled this way before !
viewtopic.php?t=111287
In Too Good To Lose there is thread with a post of mine which contains links to various posts by Brucey on hubs and freehubs - viewtopic.php?p=1564606#p1564606. I think some of these posts/threads on freehub seals should be included that list, so I've added the following links in that post:

Shimano freehub service

Removing dustcaps from Shimano freehub body

I guess it might also be worth adding a link to this thread, in particular because of the photographs it contains of the shims and seals?
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