Gatorskin - sidewall issues

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Jules59
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Joined: 16 Jan 2019, 2:34pm

Gatorskin - sidewall issues

Post by Jules59 »

I have a set of 28mm 622 (700c) Gatorskin clinchers. They have not had much use - being used for winter riding only. I was thinking of using them on a LEJOG trip instead of my usual 25mm Continental UltraSport, as they are wider (more comfortable and more puncture proof - maybe).
However Ive noticed that both Gatorskins now have peeling material near the bead.
[attachment=0]IMG_20210507_154839387_HDR.jpg[/attach

I dont think this is a structural defect but it adds to the list of faults posted by Gatorskin users - does Continental have QA issues ?
The rest of the tyre looks fine and I glued the material back down with Copydex.

But I wonder if I should just bin the Gatorskins and get some different tyres or go back to the 25mm Ultrasport for the LEJOG?

PS There is also not a lot of gap between 28mm Gatorskin and the seat post - not really appreciated that before.

Any comments ?
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IMG_20210507_154839387_HDR.jpg
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ClappedOut
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Joined: 30 May 2020, 12:43am

Re: Gatorskin - sidewall issues

Post by ClappedOut »

Personally having several sets of tyres go like this,I swapped them out.
It could just be extra re-enforcement for bead delamination, but my concern would be failure and blowing out.
If it was a mile either way- maybe ride on.
If your getting miles and miles, the inconvenience of a failed tyre?
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531colin
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Re: Gatorskin - sidewall issues

Post by 531colin »

I think thats just the chafing strip which is coming away; if I'm right, its not "structural" as such, its function is to stop the rim's bead hook from chafing through the sidewall just above the tyre bead.
There should be a drawing on Conti's website of the structure of the tyre.
If the chafing strip isn't there, you will get "flange split" viewtopic.php?f=5&t=136351&p=1461382&hi ... t#p1461382
Jules59
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Re: Gatorskin - sidewall issues

Post by Jules59 »

Thanks Colin
I followed your link - a sudden split flange sounds scary.

(PS I only recently discovered why my daughter and her girl friends kept giggling when I was talking about the trouble I was having with a leaking flange :lol: )
Steve
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Re: Gatorskin - sidewall issues

Post by Steve »

My comment would be: do not bin them, they look to have many miles left in them. Though for peace of mind, you might not want to use them for lejog.
Someone might well buy them, if you do want rid.
backnotes
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Re: Gatorskin - sidewall issues

Post by backnotes »

I think it is more like a chafing strip as suggested above. I had a Gatorskin that split underneath that band. I’ve changed the contrast so you can just about make out at the top of the split that the strip under discussion extended across the tear in the tyre underneath it and wasn’t structurally part of the pocket that contains the bead.
IMG_2500.jpg
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531colin
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Re: Gatorskin - sidewall issues

Post by 531colin »

"Backnotes"..that looks like a flange split to me. Above and continuous with the split I can see where the rim bead hook has been in contact with the tyre sidewall. (click the pic. and click "+")
I can't really see the chafing strip on your picture? It may be that the chafing strip is stuck too low down on the tyre, so that the rim bead hook is against the un-reinforced tyre sidewall.
When you say the tyre "split underneath that band" do you mean that the chafing strip was in the correct place, and the rim bead hook damaged the tyre sidewall despite the chafing strip being there? That would be extremely worrying, for 2 reasons; firstly, the chafing band has failed to do the only thing its there for, and secondly there is no way you can see whats going on!! :shock:
In the OP's picture you can see the chafing strip above the rim, so it certainly isn't stuck on too low down.
MikeDee
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Re: Gatorskin - sidewall issues

Post by MikeDee »

backnotes wrote:I think it is more like a chafing strip as suggested above. I had a Gatorskin that split underneath that band. I’ve changed the contrast so you can just about make out at the top of the split that the strip under discussion extended across the tear in the tyre underneath it and wasn’t structurally part of the pocket that contains the bead.
IMG_2500.jpg
That could be tire lever damage. If you pull a tire lever along the bead to strip off the tire, you could tear up the bead. Continental tires (at least some models of them) seem to be sensitive to that type of damage. Use the tire lever to pry off the bead.
backnotes
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Re: Gatorskin - sidewall issues

Post by backnotes »

Thanks for the above two responses,

I didn't know a chafing strip was "a thing" until this thread. The tyre is long gone and I only have the one quick phone picture of it. I have tried to indicate the edges of what I assume is the strip in question on a blow up below. The split could potentially be tyre lever damage as above, and I think it is along the line of where the rim bead hook met the tyre.

Anyway, I was probably less curious and concerned than I should have been at the time, and just relieved I had been carrying a spare tyre round with me for years. I just checked the rim and chafing strip on the replacement wheel/tyre and I can't see anything amiss..

Screenshot 2021-05-14 at 17.53.25.png
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531colin
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Re: Gatorskin - sidewall issues

Post by 531colin »

When I look at Backnotes' first picture before I put my contact lenses in, I can see the chafing strip. (there aren't many benefits to myopia)
download/file.php?id=83251&mode=view

At the bottom of the picture you can see the flange split, and where the flange split stops you can see a line of ali. from the rim bead hook deposited on the tyre. That line of ali. is at the very top of the chafing strip; the strip is darker in colour and finer weave than the tyre carcass itself.
So this is a tyre where the chafing strip is mis-placed, and the rim bead hook has chafed through the sidewall above the chafing strip.
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531colin
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Re: Gatorskin - sidewall issues

Post by 531colin »

MikeDee wrote: 14 May 2021, 8:23pm ...........That could be tire lever damage. If you pull a tire lever along the bead to strip off the tire, you could tear up the bead. Continental tires (at least some models of them) seem to be sensitive to that type of damage. Use the tire lever to pry off the bead.
Its in quite the wrong place for lever damage. Here
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79664&p=702594&hili ... it#p702594
in the lower of his 2 photos "NA" shows exactly where lever damage happens; underneath the bead where the lever goes. That damage is cosmetic, there is just a bit of rubber taken off. The real enthusiasts wear right through the tyre carcass at that point, and then the bead separates from the tyre. Normally seen in Marathon plus tyres, which are pretty stiff and don't puncture often.

Also an excellent illustration of a chafing strip and the wear line from the bead hook.
peetee
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Re: Gatorskin - sidewall issues

Post by peetee »

531colin wrote: 15 May 2021, 8:37am
MikeDee wrote: 14 May 2021, 8:23pm ...........That could be tire lever damage. If you pull a tire lever along the bead to strip off the tire, you could tear up the bead. Continental tires (at least some models of them) seem to be sensitive to that type of damage. Use the tire lever to pry off the bead.
Its in quite the wrong place for lever damage. Here
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79664&p=702594&hili ... it#p702594
in the lower of his 2 photos "NA" shows exactly where lever damage happens; underneath the bead where the lever goes. That damage is cosmetic, there is just a bit of rubber taken off.
I’m going to sit on the fence here and say that tyre lever damage at that height is possible but as an area commensurate with the width of the lever not as a run. With some rim/tyre/lever combinations it’s difficult to avoid applying pressure on the sidewall at that height in order to get the bead away from the rim hook so the lever can be inserted properly.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
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531colin
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Re: Gatorskin - sidewall issues

Post by 531colin »

peetee wrote: 15 May 2021, 2:56pm
531colin wrote: 15 May 2021, 8:37am
MikeDee wrote: 14 May 2021, 8:23pm ...........That could be tire lever damage. If you pull a tire lever along the bead to strip off the tire, you could tear up the bead. Continental tires (at least some models of them) seem to be sensitive to that type of damage. Use the tire lever to pry off the bead.
Its in quite the wrong place for lever damage. Here
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79664&p=702594&hili ... it#p702594
in the lower of his 2 photos "NA" shows exactly where lever damage happens; underneath the bead where the lever goes. That damage is cosmetic, there is just a bit of rubber taken off.
I’m going to sit on the fence here and say that tyre lever damage at that height is possible but as an area commensurate with the width of the lever not as a run. With some rim/tyre/lever combinations it’s difficult to avoid applying pressure on the sidewall at that height in order to get the bead away from the rim hook so the lever can be inserted properly.
If the tyre has been undisturbed for a long time, they can get stuck to the rim. I always unstick them by going all round the tyre squeezing the sidewalls together.
Do people really unstick them by poking them with a lever?
ANTONISH
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Re: Gatorskin - sidewall issues

Post by ANTONISH »

[quote=531colin

If the tyre has been undisturbed for a long time, they can get stuck to the rim. I always unstick them by going all round the tyre squeezing the sidewalls together.
Do people really unstick them by poking them with a lever?
[/quote]

+1
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