Campagnolo/Miche 11 Speed Cassette on a 10 Speed Free Wheel

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hondated
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Campagnolo/Miche 11 Speed Cassette on a 10 Speed Free Wheel

Post by hondated »

Because the biggest rear sprocket on my bike is 25t I want to replace it with a 29t but having looked on line 10 speed Campag is as rare as Hens teeth.
Given this I was wondering whether I could buy an 11 speed cassette and just remove a cog. Has anyone else done this.
The only other option I have is to replace the FW with a Campag one , Bianchi obviously built this bike to a price point and equipped it with Miche hubs , but try as I might I cannot remove the hub so I am wondering whether it is even possible. Taking the photo I just noticed that on the wheel it states Bianchi and Ambrosia so do you think it's fair to assume the hubs were made by Ambrosia.
The only other info I have is that on the hub it's got F0203 so yet again I am asking if anyone else have had experiences with these wheels.
Unless I can resolve these issues I will be putting the wheels on Ebay.
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Mick F
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Re: Campagnolo/Miche 11 Speed Cassette on a 10 Speed Free Wheel

Post by Mick F »

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/campagnolo-cen ... 0-cassette
https://www.wiggle.co.uk/campagnolo-vel ... d-cassette

I have the Centaur 12-30 on Mercian, and will have one again when it wears out.
Used to have the Veloce 13-29 before ............ but it was called Centaur back then.

I picked Wiggle, but other places have them I'm sure.
Mick F. Cornwall
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hondated
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Re: Campagnolo/Miche 11 Speed Cassette on a 10 Speed Free Wheel

Post by hondated »

Thanks Mick that was quick but & I,ll take your advice on this the problem I have is that a Campag cassette will not fit onto a miche free wheel. I know that because just after buying the bike I was going to the Alps and knew I needed a lower gear on the back so I brought a Campag cassette and it wouldnt fit. Ended up buying new wheels
Still struggled up them though.
pq
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Re: Campagnolo/Miche 11 Speed Cassette on a 10 Speed Free Wheel

Post by pq »

I had similar problems with a couple of bikes. Rather than replace the whole cassette I bought single Miche sprockets which are available in Campag pattern up to 32T. You just remove whichever sprocket you're OK about losing from your old cassette (not the smallest one though) and put the Miche in 1st position. The ones I have are alu, but in my experience that's OK for anything 28 or bigger. Miche also sell individual steel sprockets for elsewhere in the cassette if you want to change other stuff at the same time.
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Re: Campagnolo/Miche 11 Speed Cassette on a 10 Speed Free Wheel

Post by pq »

Just noticed you say that your freehub isn't Campag pattern. The Miche sprockets are also available in Shimano pattern so my solution will still work. If you replace your whole cassette you'll need to make sure you get a Shimano spline/Campag spaced one which can be tricky.
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hondated
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Re: Campagnolo/Miche 11 Speed Cassette on a 10 Speed Free Wheel

Post by hondated »

Thanks pq. The problem I have is that it's got Veloce levers . I have actually changed it from a triple to a compact but after reading your thread I am now loathe to sell them on as although they are working ok now I would hate it if I sold them to some one and they go wrong.
I have tried to remove the freewheel but there is no way I can undo it which has made me think that Bianchi fitted cheap hubs that you cannot remove the FW from.
What's prompted my question is that the wheels have been sitting in the garage for years and I thought it would be nice to use them rather than the new ones I fitted some years. I might just sell them on if I can't fit a bigger rear sprocket.
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Re: Campagnolo/Miche 11 Speed Cassette on a 10 Speed Free Wheel

Post by pq »

I assume you mean the cassette rather than the freewheel? Looking at your picture it looks like a normal cassette arrangement so I can't see any reason why it wouldn't come off, especially as cassettes don't tend to get stuck. Have you got the lockring off?.

I have the pod of my old veloce lever in front of me. I must say I'm not at all impressed that they've made the ratchet out of plastic - failure seems inevitable. As for selling them, I see your point, but veloce levers are what they are, and anyone wanting a set needs to accept that. Maybe sell them at a low price and say the ratchet is plastic?
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cycleruk
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Re: Campagnolo/Miche 11 Speed Cassette on a 10 Speed Free Wheel

Post by cycleruk »

That just looks like a standard cassette to me.
Just need a chain whip and cassette tool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KAaP7pbFV0
I don't do mine as tight as he seems to do it. :roll:
You'll never know if you don't try it.
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hondated
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Re: Campagnolo/Miche 11 Speed Cassette on a 10 Speed Free Wheel

Post by hondated »

pq wrote: 16 May 2021, 11:29am I assume you mean the cassette rather than the freewheel? Looking at your picture it looks like a normal cassette arrangement so I can't see any reason why it wouldn't come off, especially as cassettes don't tend to get stuck. Have you got the lockring off?.

I have the pod of my old veloce lever in front of me. I must say I'm not at all impressed that they've made the ratchet out of plastic - failure seems inevitable. As for selling them, I see your point, but veloce levers are what they are, and anyone wanting a set needs to accept that. Maybe sell them at a low price and say the ratchet is plastic?
Thanks again pq yes cassette comes off easy it's just that miche splines are different to Camp as are Shimano Campag.
I have actually just found on line The Cycle Clinic that do Miche sprockets separately. Which has prompted another question.
The cassette I have is 12, 13,14,15,17,19,21,23, 25,
Now what I would like to fit has my largest would be a 29 so the question is for yourself and anyone else reading this is given I want to buy as few sprockets as I can how would you step up to the 29. As always advice will be appreciated.
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hondated
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Re: Campagnolo/Miche 11 Speed Cassette on a 10 Speed Free Wheel

Post by hondated »

cycleruk wrote: 16 May 2021, 11:37am That just looks like a standard cassette to me.
Just need a chain whip and cassette tool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KAaP7pbFV0
I don't do mine as tight as he seems to do it. :roll:
Thanks cycleruk and I love watching Calvin's videos as well. No I know how to remove a cassette although many may not. Funnily enough I recently rewrapped my bars and used Calvin's video to do it but I just could not get it wrapped the sane way he was telling me to. So I left a friendly comment explaining that because my levers were Campag and the hoods had rubber spigot it wasn't possible to do it the same way. Surprisingly they got back to me and said it was a fair comment and it's not always possible to do it their way. Nice of them to have gotten back to me as I didn't feel such a numpty.
As for Campag what can I say. Growing up they were the group set to aspire to but ime working on them is so much harder than Shimano. You need special tools to do many things unlike Shimano. In PQ thread I see someone mention fitting a Campag external bracket and needing a special tool. They were right of cause but a good wrapping of rag and a pair of expandable pliers fitted mine. Thanks again.
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Mick F
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Re: Campagnolo/Miche 11 Speed Cassette on a 10 Speed Free Wheel

Post by Mick F »

Miche splines?
How are they different to Campag or Shimano splines?

I bought set of Miche sprockets for my Campag hub quite some years ago. The Miche sprockets were fine. 12-29
Had them in for just over 5,000miles (I keep records) when I fitted a Centaur 12-29.

Since gone to Centaur 12-30 which is a far better cassette than the 12-29 due to the shifting pattern as it's a different system more akin to 11sp.

I have a Miche hub on Mercian now, and have it with Campag splines. Moulton originally came with a Miche hub but had Shimano splines. That hub is now out of service, so I can swap over to Shimano cassettes on Mercian in the future if I want. It's a simple job to swap them over, you don't even need to remove the cassette.
Mick F. Cornwall
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hondated
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Re: Campagnolo/Miche 11 Speed Cassette on a 10 Speed Free Wheel

Post by hondated »

Mick I,ll be back I will remove the cassette from the wheels I am using and fit them onto the new wheels.I l get back to you shortly.Ted
tatanab
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Re: Campagnolo/Miche 11 Speed Cassette on a 10 Speed Free Wheel

Post by tatanab »

Greatly confused. What spline pattern freehub do you have? Campag, Shimano or the odd ball in Miche? If Campag spline, then you will have a Campag compatible cassette. If a Shimano spline then I guess you will have Shimano splined cassette spaced for Campag. Not clear to me just what you already have.

I have bought Miche sprockets from Cycle Clinic in the past, but mine is easy because I know the spline pattern is Shimano and I know I want Campag spacing.

The other question, can you just replace the bottom sprocket of 25 with a 29. The answer is yes. The bottom end of my cassettes go 21/24/28. With a jump from 23 to 29 that is a big gear difference, but it might suit what you want to do - which I guess is have an "emergency" bail out gear.
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Re: Campagnolo/Miche 11 Speed Cassette on a 10 Speed Free Wheel

Post by slowster »

hondated wrote: 16 May 2021, 11:54am Thanks again pq yes cassette comes off easy it's just that miche splines are different to Camp as are Shimano Campag.
I have actually just found on line The Cycle Clinic that do Miche sprockets separately. Which has prompted another question.
The cassette I have is 12, 13,14,15,17,19,21,23, 25,
As far as I am aware Miche sprockets will either have splines to fit a Shimano freehub or splines to fit a Campagnolo freehub. Similarly a Miche hub would have a freehub that was either Shimano or Campagnolo sprocket/cassette compatible. There is not a unique Miche spline pattern that only accepts Miche sprockets/cassettes. (Apologies for stating the bleedin obvious, but I take it you are aware that the spline patterns are not symmetrical: if the cassette is held on top of the freehub and rotated by 360 degrees it will only fit onto the freehub at one point in the rotation.)

It's not clear to me what pattern freehub you currently have, nor exactly what speed cassette you currently have. You ask about removing a sprocket from an 11 speed cassette to fit a 10 speed freehub, but you've listed 9 sprockets in your current cassette (12, 13,14,15,17,19,21,23, 25). Since the spacing between sprockets usually is different for different speeds (usually achieved by different width sprockets and different width spacers), an 11 speed cassette with a sprocket removed will probably not be a drop in replacement for a 10 speed cassette.
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Re: Campagnolo/Miche 11 Speed Cassette on a 10 Speed Free Wheel

Post by pq »

Well ratios are a personal thing. I don't ever push big gears so I favour ratios quite closely spaced in the ratios I do use which means some of my cassettes are quite unusual. Conventional wisdom is that you should replace the 25 with a 26 and jump from there to the 29, but I'd probably just leave the 25 on. Down the other end of the cassette I'd buy a 13 to use as the smallest sprocket and ditch the existing 13 to create space for the 29. But maybe you feel you need the 12.

As for splines, you need to identify what they are. I've never heard of a Miche specific pattern, surely it's Shimano if Campag doesn't fit? Whatever it is, you need to be certain before you can move forward.

On Campag as aspirational, my view on that is that their best stuff has the highest build quality of anything available (with some exceptions) but they've mostly made a mess of doing budget stuff. I'm very very careful of buying anything lower than Chorus, but some if the cheaper stuff is absolutely fine. Caveat emptor.
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