Cracked head tube
Cracked head tube
Here’s a curious case - how do you get a crack like this? It’s a mid ‘80s Record Ace. Running into something solid is the usual explanation...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373580999210
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373580999210
Spa Audax Ti Ultegra; Genesis Equilibrium 853; Raleigh Record Ace 1983; “Raleigh Competition”, “Raleigh Gran Sport 1982”; “Allegro Special”, Bob Jackson tourer, Ridley alu step-through with Swytch front wheel; gravel bike from an MB Dronfield 531 frame.
Re: Cracked head tube
Metal or more like braze fatigueDavid9694 wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 4:50pm Here’s a curious case - how do you get a crack like this? It’s a mid ‘80s Record Ace. Running into something solid is the usual explanation...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373580999210
F85933E0-59A6-45EC-91C5-03082AFF9E90.jpeg
Take it to a,welding shop and get it fixed
Re: Cracked head tube
Yes, braze/heat failure or metal fatigue or some such. I think it is a case of the National trust house approach.
If you offer it to me for free, I'll take so long as it comes with a whole load of cash to contribute to the cost of repair....
Seriously not worth it for the frame, unless someone can cheaply weld it up, but the 531 was never made for welding, only brazing.
Worth putting in an offer for the forks of course, then you save on the postage.
In terms of repair, a frambuilder needs to put a new head tube in the lugs. Argos would be £200 excluding paint.
Welding up is fine (531 excepted, as above) so long as you can keep the lugs in line for the headset....
Once a customer compalined to my then boss about "my attitude" as I was only willing/able to adjust his headset "as best as possible" - the head tube had broken and then been welded up, the top lug/H-S race did not line up with the bottom lug/H-S race, plus for good measure the folk column was bent somewhere with in the head tube.
These days I would not do the adjustment at all (not that it ever could be!).
If you offer it to me for free, I'll take so long as it comes with a whole load of cash to contribute to the cost of repair....
Seriously not worth it for the frame, unless someone can cheaply weld it up, but the 531 was never made for welding, only brazing.
Worth putting in an offer for the forks of course, then you save on the postage.
In terms of repair, a frambuilder needs to put a new head tube in the lugs. Argos would be £200 excluding paint.
Welding up is fine (531 excepted, as above) so long as you can keep the lugs in line for the headset....
Once a customer compalined to my then boss about "my attitude" as I was only willing/able to adjust his headset "as best as possible" - the head tube had broken and then been welded up, the top lug/H-S race did not line up with the bottom lug/H-S race, plus for good measure the folk column was bent somewhere with in the head tube.
These days I would not do the adjustment at all (not that it ever could be!).
Re: Cracked head tube
Not worth worrying about.
The frame itself is pretty average; just the 3 main tubes 531, plain gauge.
Head tube is un-specified (ie cheap) tubing; an artisan framebuilder would have filed the lugs thinner at the ends to reduce the stress-raiser, and probably used a better lugset in the first place.
On the other hand, if you were looking for excitement, you could probably sleeve it internally and silver solder it up; the crack only goes part way round. As above, though, the head tube needs to be straight(ish) when finished.
The frame itself is pretty average; just the 3 main tubes 531, plain gauge.
Head tube is un-specified (ie cheap) tubing; an artisan framebuilder would have filed the lugs thinner at the ends to reduce the stress-raiser, and probably used a better lugset in the first place.
On the other hand, if you were looking for excitement, you could probably sleeve it internally and silver solder it up; the crack only goes part way round. As above, though, the head tube needs to be straight(ish) when finished.
Bike fitting D.I.Y. .....http://wheel-easy.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/bike-set-up-2017a.pdf
Tracks in the Dales etc...http://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/collections/
Tracks in the Dales etc...http://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/collections/
Re: Cracked head tube
Not heard of braze fatigue (genuinely). Is it a defect as such? I guess in theory the head tube can be replaced, but it’s hardly economic particularly when the drop outs appear no longer to be 531.jo' bo wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 4:54pmMetal or more like braze fatigueDavid9694 wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 4:50pm Here’s a curious case - how do you get a crack like this? It’s a mid ‘80s Record Ace. Running into something solid is the usual explanation...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373580999210
F85933E0-59A6-45EC-91C5-03082AFF9E90.jpeg
Take it to a,welding shop and get it fixed
I wouldn’t mind taking the forks off his hands if they’ve not been crashed.
Spa Audax Ti Ultegra; Genesis Equilibrium 853; Raleigh Record Ace 1983; “Raleigh Competition”, “Raleigh Gran Sport 1982”; “Allegro Special”, Bob Jackson tourer, Ridley alu step-through with Swytch front wheel; gravel bike from an MB Dronfield 531 frame.
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Re: Cracked head tube
Overheated on build if it hasn't been crashed I would guess.
Plus might have been run with Headset loose which over time will kill the head tube ( I know it's a bike but not an uncommon problem on a trike where all the braking is generally on the front fork )
Plus might have been run with Headset loose which over time will kill the head tube ( I know it's a bike but not an uncommon problem on a trike where all the braking is generally on the front fork )
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Re: Cracked head tube
^^^^ I'm unsure if the above is serious comment or meant to be a joke - It's poor advice! Do not do this ^^^^^^^jo' bo wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 4:54pmMetal or more like braze fatigueDavid9694 wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 4:50pm Here’s a curious case - how do you get a crack like this? It’s a mid ‘80s Record Ace. Running into something solid is the usual explanation...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373580999210
F85933E0-59A6-45EC-91C5-03082AFF9E90.jpeg
Take it to a,welding shop and get it fixed
Re: Cracked head tube
Taking it to an expert metal fabrication repair facility and getting it fixed is bad advice, ?fastpedaller wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 8:26pm^^^^ I'm unsure if the above is serious comment or meant to be a joke - It's poor advice! Do not do this ^^^^^^^jo' bo wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 4:54pmMetal or more like braze fatigueDavid9694 wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 4:50pm Here’s a curious case - how do you get a crack like this? It’s a mid ‘80s Record Ace. Running into something solid is the usual explanation...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373580999210
F85933E0-59A6-45EC-91C5-03082AFF9E90.jpeg
Take it to a,welding shop and get it fixed
Ok what's good advice, throw it away presumably, or use it as wall art?
Re: Cracked head tube
Here are three reasons why this is bad advice.jo' bo wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 8:45pmTaking it to an expert metal fabrication repair facility and getting it fixed is bad advice, ?fastpedaller wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 8:26pm^^^^ I'm unsure if the above is serious comment or meant to be a joke - It's poor advice! Do not do this ^^^^^^^
Ok what's good advice, throw it away presumably, or use it as wall art?
1) 531 often cracks after welding
2) Welding next to a brazed joint results in a very messy weld because the zinc comes out of alloy with the brass and vaporises. Porous, dirty weld is the result and likely to crack again
3) The tube will distort from welding, bringing the headset out of allignment
If you wanted to save the frame, take it to a reputable framebuilder who will replace the headtube. Anything less is a bodge
Re: Cracked head tube
Well that's all very interesting, but I didnt say get it welded did I, I said take it to a,welder who would of course have brazing facilitiesAndyA wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 9:57pmHere are three reasons why this is bad advice.jo' bo wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 8:45pmTaking it to an expert metal fabrication repair facility and getting it fixed is bad advice, ?fastpedaller wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 8:26pm
^^^^ I'm unsure if the above is serious comment or meant to be a joke - It's poor advice! Do not do this ^^^^^^^
Ok what's good advice, throw it away presumably, or use it as wall art?
1) 531 often cracks after welding
2) Welding next to a brazed joint results in a very messy weld because the zinc comes out of alloy with the brass and vaporises. Porous, dirty weld is the result and likely to crack again
3) The tube will distort from welding, bringing the headset out of allignment
If you wanted to save the frame, take it to a reputable framebuilder who will replace the headtube. Anything less is a bodge
As a general rule people who can repair two ton hundred mile an hour vehicles can be trusted to repair an old push bike frame
It really not that complicated , specialist frame builder my $$$$, I'd do it with my aldi arc welder
Re: Cracked head tube
Actually, repairing cars is miles easier than properly fixing bicycle frames. I know, I've done both! Doing this job properly, to get a good as new result, requires a set of skills at a level you're unlikely to get at a "welding shop"
Re: Cracked head tube
Who said as good as new? You just want to the tube to not fall off,
And no it really isnt more difficult, it's an old push bike frame, not a flipping Ferrari
Re: Cracked head tube
Who said as good as new? You just want to the tube to not fall off,
And no it really isnt more difficult, it's an old push bike frame, not a flipping Ferrari
Re: Cracked head tube
Whilst I would agree that it's probably not worth repairing I'm pretty sure that those Record Aces were built with a full 531C tube set. I had the opportunity to buy a lot of them from Raleigh at a good price when they cleared them out, selling them on at £200 if I remember correctly.531colin wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 5:28pm Not worth worrying about.
The frame itself is pretty average; just the 3 main tubes 531, plain gauge.
Head tube is un-specified (ie cheap) tubing; an artisan framebuilder would have filed the lugs thinner at the ends to reduce the stress-raiser, and probably used a better lugset in the first place.
On the other hand, if you were looking for excitement, you could probably sleeve it internally and silver solder it up; the crack only goes part way round. As above, though, the head tube needs to be straight(ish) when finished.