Bike designs which should be binned

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cycle tramp
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Re: Bike designs which should be binned

Post by cycle tramp »

One of my favourite quotes from Aleister Crowley*
'Balance every thought with its opposition, because the marriage of them is the destruction of illusion'

(Never heard of him? Then google the name)
It's time to go :-)
mattheus
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Re: Bike designs which should be binned

Post by mattheus »

pq wrote: 15 Jun 2021, 2:31pm What I think should be binned are not bike designs but grumpy old men who routinely dismiss as stupid anything which appeared after they turned 25 and which they've never used and don't understand. Not the same thing as dismissing "innovations" which really are daft of course.
Of course.

And of course with any innovation that appeared after you were 25, we shall come to you for a critical, objective judgement. I wouldn't want to become a grumpy by not liking some technology that you have approved, or use anything you've declared daft.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Bike designs which should be binned

Post by [XAP]Bob »

gxaustin wrote: 9 Jun 2021, 6:39am
QR's require training and expertise.
Are you being serious? Did you really need to be trained to do up a QR? Really? Do you now regard yourself as an 'expert', having mastered the expertise required? :roll:
Yes you need to be taught how to do up a QR, because they are unlike basically any other fitting you come across.
I suspect expert level is only achieved when you can replace a front wheel whilst hanging out of the back of the team car and having your team leader wheelie alongside.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
MartinC
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Re: Bike designs which should be binned

Post by MartinC »

One could argue easily that the problem isn't bad designs but people insisting on using designs that provide marginal gains in a discipline that they don't participate in. For example people who want QR's when they can't even fix a puncture.
freeflow
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Re: Bike designs which should be binned

Post by freeflow »

But but. Having a QR is the first step in making a puncture easier to fix and hence should encourage more people to have a go at fixing punctures. Not withstanding, any bike shop that sells bikes with QR should demonstrate how the QR works at the point of pickup, and check that the lesson is remembered at the 6 week service.
MartinC
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Re: Bike designs which should be binned

Post by MartinC »

freeflow wrote: 16 Jun 2021, 10:48am But but. Having a QR is the first step in making a puncture easier to fix and hence should encourage more people to have a go at fixing punctures. Not withstanding, any bike shop that sells bikes with QR should demonstrate how the QR works at the point of pickup, and check that the lesson is remembered at the 6 week service.
Yes. But none of those things is going to happen. And lawyers lips make it more difficult (but safer from litigation for the manufacturers and the shops).

Wing nuts and lawyers lips would be a good design for many people (i.e. anyone not racing on rim brakes) but desperately unfashionable. Thru axles nearly get there but create an interface with the frame that will eventually wear out. But not in the frame lifetime the manufacturer wants.
freeflow
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Re: Bike designs which should be binned

Post by freeflow »

Wing nuts would only be acceptable if the wings could be aligned horizontally to reduce the immense drag introduced by the wings :mrgreen: :shock:
jb
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Re: Bike designs which should be binned

Post by jb »

(2) I've regularly been lectured on here about the non-existent usability problems with a saddle I've been using for 10 years, by people who admit to never having so much as sat on one. The only explanation for this is that these particular saddles are a crime against cycling aesthetics, and that's proof enough for some people that they're therefore also incapable of doing the job they're intended for.

I fail to see how anyone can pass judgement on another's saddle. They are such a personal experience if you chose to ride on a sack full of custard - unless some one else has access to your backside nerve system - they are not in a position to comment.

Advise on what works for another person is different.
Cheers
J Bro
MartinC
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Re: Bike designs which should be binned

Post by MartinC »

freeflow wrote: 16 Jun 2021, 12:22pm Wing nuts would only be acceptable if the wings could be aligned horizontally to reduce the immense drag introduced by the wings :mrgreen: :shock:
There could be a Red Bull version. :lol:
DevonDamo
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Re: Bike designs which should be binned

Post by DevonDamo »

jb wrote: 16 Jun 2021, 1:42pmI fail to see how anyone can pass judgement on another's saddle. They are such a personal experience if you chose to ride on a sack full of custard - unless some one else has access to your backside nerve system - they are not in a position to comment.

Advise on what works for another person is different.
Absolutely. I can understand people wanting to give their opinion on weird-looking products which they haven't actually tested as I can be as guilty of 'playing to the gallery' like that as the next person. However, the moment one of my peers (as opposed to an advertiser) says 'actually I've tested it and it works,' then that changes everything - I might continue to snigger at the aesthetics etc, but I'd never attempt to contradict someone's real-world experience of how it actually performs until I'd tried it myself.
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horizon
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Re: Bike designs which should be binned

Post by horizon »

pq wrote: 15 Jun 2021, 2:31pm I do find the hostility towards gravel bikes from grumpy old men a bit baffling. I have one and it's the best bike related thing I've bought in maybe 20 years. Of course I could manage without it - my heavy duty tourer, my old CX bike and sundry mountain bikes would all do the same job, but the gravel bike does it better and it means I do rides which I otherwise wouldn't.
It's horses for courses. AFAIR, mountain bikes allowed a new generation of non-cyclists to bump up kerbs, ride on pavements and get round parks. They were a revelation. Same with gravel bikes IMV: we don't have gravel roads in the UK (though some are getting pretty close to it :shock: ) but we do have lots more canal tow paths, off-road routes, Sustrans and the like, especially where you want to cycle a bit on-road, a bit off-road.

So if the grumpy old geezer hasn't changed his cycling habits, then the new bikes aren't going to mean much to him. I always had an image of the owners of the newly-popular cross bikes, tearing along the tow path to work and then dashing up the stairs carrying his lightweight bike into the office. They weren't bought for cyclo-cross.

I've ended up mainly using my folder at the moment so I can get it on the bus but I wouldn't pretend for a moment that it does the job better than my tourer - except for getting on the bus of course.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
mattheus
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Re: Bike designs which should be binned

Post by mattheus »

horizon wrote: 16 Jun 2021, 7:07pm It's horses for courses. AFAIR, mountain bikes allowed a new generation of non-cyclists to bump up kerbs, ride on pavements and get round parks. They were a revelation. Same with gravel bikes IMV: we don't have gravel roads in the UK (though some are getting pretty close to it :shock: ) but we do have lots more canal tow paths, off-road routes, Sustrans and the like, especially where you want to cycle a bit on-road, a bit off-road.

So if the grumpy old geezer hasn't changed his cycling habits, then the new bikes aren't going to mean much to him. I always had an image of the owners of the newly-popular cross bikes, tearing along the tow path to work and then dashing up the stairs carrying his lightweight bike into the office. They weren't bought for cyclo-cross.
This grumpy old geezer has an ex-race-winning CX bike that (after adding rack/guards) I use for commuting and general "rough" touring type rides, as you describe above.

I also bought a CX bike when I started racing CX a few years ago. A bit late to the party - I wish someone had introduced me when I was 16!
freeflow
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Re: Bike designs which should be binned

Post by freeflow »

Not a design but an activity that has greatly distorted what a bicycle should be, namely, racing.
Mike Sales
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Re: Bike designs which should be binned

Post by Mike Sales »

freeflow wrote: 17 Jun 2021, 2:48pm Not a design but an activity that has greatly distorted what a bicycle should be, namely, racing.
I'm afraid that competition seems to be a inherent part of human nature. Many other activities, pleasant in themselves, have been turned into competitions.
Running and jumping, sailing, climbing, skating on wheels or ice, swimming, skiing etc. etc. Even when they cannot be judged as fastest or highest or first we award points to find out who is best.
There is a consolation for you though. You don't have to race. It is not compulsory. I don't.
And you are free to ride whatever bike you like.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Bike designs which should be binned

Post by [XAP]Bob »

freeflow wrote: 16 Jun 2021, 10:48am But but. Having a QR is the first step in making a puncture easier to fix and hence should encourage more people to have a go at fixing punctures. Not withstanding, any bike shop that sells bikes with QR should demonstrate how the QR works at the point of pickup, and check that the lesson is remembered at the 6 week service.
No - cantilevered axles are the important step. No need to remove the wheel at all.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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