Derailleur alignment tool recommendations?

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Gattonero
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Re: Derailleur Hanger alignment tool ?

Post by Gattonero »

scottg wrote:
Gattonero wrote:
scottg wrote:
In fact, if you knew the guy who's behind those "expensive" tools, you will know he's a pro mechanic who travels a lot, and those tools are made exactly for professional mechanics on the move, where saving 5kg on the tool bag becomes a few hundred dollars per year saved in extra-baggage expense per flight.
There's a time and a place for most things, those tools are very much the best that can be designed and manufactured with no expense spared. Clearly not a toy or the average tool for most.


When you are spending 'other peoples money', generally transport is provide by the company jet or GFE (government furnished equipment).
Neither entity charge baggage fees, although on smaller jets weight & balance info is required, so light weight tools have their place. :)
....


Yeah, good luck with that, you don't always get such luxury.
Most of the pro mechanics on the move, will use a lockable case, and when you're working 14-16hrs a day the last thing you want is to constantly carry a heavy toolbox. And to lighten up your case, you have to review all the tools.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
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Gattonero
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Re: Derailleur Hanger alignment tool ?

Post by Gattonero »

Brucey wrote:FWIW very many of the PT hanger alignment tools I see in regular use have 'lost' their pointers too. Mostly they are removed and discarded, like mine was. Some have broken.

There it comes a decent design: the sliding gauge has a round hole and a screw to hold, so you can use anything that is round and is 1/4" or 6mm. In fact, you can even use an allen key.
Indicators? Use an o-ring, the ones that come with tubeless valves, or the ones that are under the Campagnolo brake adjusters, are perfect for the job.
Can't be easier than that.

Brucey wrote:...
If a play-free tool were difficult/expensive to make or of no advantage whatsoever, then it might be acceptable to have a wobbly one (that can put the kiss of death on damaged threads too). However it wouldn't even be expensive or difficult to make the tool to a better design. As it is, it is an almost perfect example of a crap design; it costs a fortune, it is (or soon becomes) wobbly, it can cause damage where there is no need for it and the design is easily improved upon.

Duh.

cheers


The problem is how much play is acceptable vs strength of the tools vs cost.
So here are a few facts about the Park Tool one:
-it's made with good materials that do last many years of daily use in workshops all around the world
-the housing for the main pivot is a substantial piece of steel that won't deform
-to prevent damage in the threads, and avoid wear in the pivot housing, the pivot is replaceable and doesn't cost a fortune
-having seen and used a few, in different times and locations, the pivot will get up to 5mm play (on a 700c wheel) in no less than 5 years of daily use
-the sliding gauge is made in a way that will keep its position even after thousands of uses
-for the above, the design is made so that it can accept virtually anything that fits a 1/4" hole (in a pinch, you could even use a skewer)
-its covered by warranty worldwide
-the one that's not happy can resell it anytime, the brand helps a lot in keeping the value and making for a quick sale

I'm sure this is a tool that can be improved in many ways, and it's not cheap. Yet, it doesn't exactly cost a fortune (£61, when a shop will ask you £15 every time you want the RD hanger checked) and is proved to last years.

As always, my position is not to "defend this or that manufacturer", but to stand by logic and facts given by daily use on multiple users and scenarios.
There will always be the one moaning that something is crap while a few thousand people are happy with the same product. We all have different needs, but some are unable to see beyond this and promptly judge "crap" anything they don't like or that are unable to use properly.
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
Brucey
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Re: Derailleur Hanger alignment tool ?

Post by Brucey »

in much less time than you have spent explaining that you think the tool is lovely and that you think I don't know how to use it ( :roll: ) etc etc etc, I have built something better….


says everything really....
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Gattonero
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Re: Derailleur Hanger alignment tool ?

Post by Gattonero »

Of course you always build something better...
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
fastpedaller
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Re: Derailleur Hanger alignment tool ?

Post by fastpedaller »

Old Thread Resurrection
Whilst pottering in the garage today, I came across my 'collection' of old fixed sprockets, and it struck me that an alignment gauge (nb not a tool for bending the dropout) can be built using a track hub. I've found a 'fairly hooked' 1/8 fixed sprocket to which I'll attach some round bar stock using my arc welder. I've put a couple of bends in the bar stock already to bring it closer to the wheel rim (oops it may be too close, because I'll need to miss the chainstays and seatstays :oops: ) so I'll need to do a check. It can be 'adjusted in the vice' if necessary. the next hurdle is how to allow for the difference in radius due to the centre of the track hub not being on the wheel centre (ie in the hanger) maybe a straight edge clamped in position?
Polisman
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Re: Derailleur Hanger alignment tool ?

Post by Polisman »

This Campagnolo tool has always been my favourite. The wheel dishing tool in the photo is also very classy, but I rarely use it.
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Brucey
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Re: Derailleur Hanger alignment tool ?

Post by Brucey »

you can use a wheel as a hanger alignment tool. When you are done aligning your hanger, you are left with a wheel, which is a much more useful thing.

So I'd build the spare hub into a wheel.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Gattonero
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Re: Derailleur Hanger alignment tool ?

Post by Gattonero »

fastpedaller wrote:Old Thread Resurrection
Whilst pottering in the garage today, I came across my 'collection' of old fixed sprockets, and it struck me that an alignment gauge (nb not a tool for bending the dropout) can be built using a track hub. I've found a 'fairly hooked' 1/8 fixed sprocket to which I'll attach some round bar stock using my arc welder. I've put a couple of bends in the bar stock already to bring it closer to the wheel rim (oops it may be too close, because I'll need to miss the chainstays and seatstays :oops: ) so I'll need to do a check. It can be 'adjusted in the vice' if necessary. the next hurdle is how to allow for the difference in radius due to the centre of the track hub not being on the wheel centre (ie in the hanger) maybe a straight edge clamped in position?


Sprockets are heat-treated so not a great thing to weld some different steel onto. Is not going to be strong enough.

Since you have some bar stock and a welding machine, why don't you anneal the full-length to create a copy of the Campagnolo tool? You could find a steel hub to weld on the bar, plus another sleeve on top to brace the hub and overlapping onto the bar.

To compensate the difference in offset between the center of the hanger and the centr of the wheel, it is the differernce why people would use a wheel only in emergency. It's not that milions of people in the world are stupid and there' only one genius :wink:
Now, back to your DIY tool, you would have to create a "sleeve" out of smething, say a steel fork steerer with two grub scres (or wing nuts) and a sliding device (the eyelets to mount cycle racks come to mind...)
It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best,
since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them.
Thus you remember them as they actually are...
Brucey
Posts: 44516
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Derailleur Hanger alignment tool ?

Post by Brucey »

If you want to use a wheel as a hanger alignment tool, it works perfectly and is arguably easier to use than some commercially available tools. Easier? Why yes; it just sits there and is always in the right place whereas a so-called 'proper tool' wants to hang in one place, so you need more hands to work the tool. Also when you reset the hanger you can usually see more easily if you are making good progress before you check it by measurement.

The method is to

a) measure rim to rim at the front and the back (vernier calipers if you are feeling fancy, ruler or tape measure if not)
b) correct the front-rear alignment
c) check that the rim separation at the bottom of the wheel is the same as the fore-aft measurement
d) adjust the rim separation at the bottom of the wheel.

If you think either wheel is not running true, you could swing both wheels around so that you are always measuring between the same points on both wheels. But if the wheels are reasonably true this isn't really necessary.

I used a wheel for years and it worked fine. I eventually got a so-called 'proper tool' (simply because it packed down small for transport) and tbh it was a bit crap. You will almost certainly be able to weld something onto your sprocket, but I don't expect it to ever make an especially good tool.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Samuel D
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Re: Derailleur Hanger alignment tool ?

Post by Samuel D »

I like the look of the new Wolf Tooth hanger alignment tool. So does Jim Langley, who shows how it works from about 5:00 in this video.

This design should be much easier and quicker to use than the Park Tool type although it won’t so easily allow you to adjust toe and camber to a non-zero value if you need to do that.
londonbikerider
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Re: Derailleur Hanger alignment tool ?

Post by londonbikerider »

I have seen that Wolftooth hanger tool, and I am not convinced.
Seriously, if your bike is so fragile that you need constantly to carry a tool for the alignment of the mech hanger, you'd better get a bike that would use a stronger design (though there may not be many out there!)
Samuel D
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Re: Derailleur Hanger alignment tool ?

Post by Samuel D »

I’m not interested in the portable aspect of it, although I do like the small size for storage (I live in a small flat).

But the design is nice because it allows quick, easy, and accurate alignment. That’s not a bad trick. And clutter on the bicycle (e.g. mudguards, rack stays, etc.) doesn’t get in the way of the tool’s operation.

What don’t you like about it?
londonbikerider
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Re: Derailleur Hanger alignment tool ?

Post by londonbikerider »

I don't like the faffing around with the tru-axles, extensions, and all that. Seems overkill unless your goal is compatibility with all types of frames.
The typical hanger tool only requires to remove the rear mech and leave the wheel in place, whatever size or type this one is. And if you have mudguards or racks is not the slightest problem: the indicator slides in and out so it's not a problem.

With the Wolftooth tool, it requires to aim the two bars, which may not always be easy. Another minus is that you could knock the "fixed" bar while exerting force on the "hanger" bar, thus stripping the threads on the former.
Brucey
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Re: Derailleur Hanger alignment tool ?

Post by Brucey »

it is also not clear to me that the QR skewer is tight (as tight as normal) when the wolf tooth tool is in use. In many bikes the dropout flexes slightly as the QR is tightened, enough to destroy the accuracy of the hanger alignment if it is not done whilst the QR is properly tight.

cheers
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