Help with a vintage bicycle identification

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
Post Reply
MsMellie
Posts: 33
Joined: 7 Sep 2021, 3:00pm

Help with a vintage bicycle identification

Post by MsMellie »

Hello all,

Prepare for a lengthy post :D A few months ago I purchased for a relatively low price a vintage bicycle. I have ridden it quite a lot (over 1000 km in these few months) and under a good load and it is perfect. While doing that I have also done some minor restorations and spent hours taking care of the thing and while doing that I found out a lot about it. Except for the model. That is why I am posting this here in the hopes that with the image attached and all the info I can give someone will be able to help me identify it. Here is what I know:

The manufacturer is Victoria, also known as Victoria-Werke, a German company that has made bicycles from the early 1900's to about 1958. when it moved on to motorcycles only. My bike has a very intact logo on the front and on the back so I am certain it is them. Now for the components:

The brake handles are made of aluminium and have ALTENBURGER engraved on them. The brakes themselves, both front and rear, are WEINMANN.

The shifter for the rear gears is a downtube shifter with "Huret" engraved on it. Huret was apparently a huge French manufacturer of shifters and other bike bits and their components were seen on Tour de France at the time. The rear derailleur is a Huret Svelto. There are four gears on the cassette.

The shifter for the chainring is a piece a work. It is a rod-operated shifter which you shift with your foot. These kinds of shifters are often called suicide shifters. It is a SIMPLEX Brevette S. G. D. G. There are two gears on the chainring.

These is a photo attached to this post. Note that the baskets didn't come with the bicycle, I put those on.

Thanks in advance to anyone reading this
Attachments
Don't mind the date, the camera is messed up.
Don't mind the date, the camera is messed up.
slowster
Moderator
Posts: 4612
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Help with a vintage bicycle identification

Post by slowster »

MsMellie wrote: 21 Sep 2021, 9:19am The shifter for the chainring is a piece a work. It is a rod-operated shifter which you shift with your foot. These kinds of shifters are often called suicide shifters.
Your bike is back at the cutting edge:

https://www.renehersecycles.com/my-pbp- ... railleurs/
It sounds crude at first – there isn’t even a parallelogram, just a simple lever that pushes the derailleur cage from side to side. But since the derailleur is very stiff and you control it directly, shifts are fast and positive. The shift quality resembles that of a modern electronic derailleur, where the motor pushes the chain with great force. It’s also very light – 64 g – and you save further weight because there’s no shift lever, no cable and no housing. The derailleur is free to float over the chain, so you don’t need to trim it when you shift on the rear. If the chain rubs, the derailleur just moves until it’s centered again.
MsMellie
Posts: 33
Joined: 7 Sep 2021, 3:00pm

Re: Help with a vintage bicycle identification

Post by MsMellie »

slowster wrote: 21 Sep 2021, 9:28am
MsMellie wrote: 21 Sep 2021, 9:19am The shifter for the chainring is a piece a work. It is a rod-operated shifter which you shift with your foot. These kinds of shifters are often called suicide shifters.
Your bike is back at the cutting edge:

https://www.renehersecycles.com/my-pbp- ... railleurs/
It sounds crude at first – there isn’t even a parallelogram, just a simple lever that pushes the derailleur cage from side to side. But since the derailleur is very stiff and you control it directly, shifts are fast and positive. The shift quality resembles that of a modern electronic derailleur, where the motor pushes the chain with great force. It’s also very light – 64 g – and you save further weight because there’s no shift lever, no cable and no housing. The derailleur is free to float over the chain, so you don’t need to trim it when you shift on the rear. If the chain rubs, the derailleur just moves until it’s centered again.
All true. The shifting on that is incredible. When I first got it I had to look down to check if it really shifted because it is silent. If it starts acting up all I need to do is tighten one single screw which controls how responsive the lever is to pressure. I wouldn't trade it for anything :)
Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 20697
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Help with a vintage bicycle identification

Post by Vorpal »

There are lots of other places companies have put frame numbers on bikes. I would just examine the entire frame carefully. I have seen frame numbers on the top of the BB (where it extends out a little from the frame on an older bike), the underside of the down tube, and the seat tube. Older Norwegian bikes often have them on the headset. If you don't find it after looking carefully over the whole bike, the Weinmann parts might place it in time https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/c ... omponents/ They could, of course have been replaced, but if they are from before 1958, they are likely to be original.

After that, I expect that you will be better off with German sites than English. A few things to try that might not entail too much effort:

-contact the company that currently owns the Victoria Fahrrad trademark & see if they have any historic information
-post in English on a German cycling / vintage bikes forum or facebook page

https://www.radforum.de/ has a vintage section
https://www.altesrad.net/phpBB3/index.p ... 03cd8d05f0 is for an association of vintage bike collectors & has a subforum for identification

Good luck!
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
thirdcrank
Posts: 36764
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Help with a vintage bicycle identification

Post by thirdcrank »

A couple of minor notes. Your double clanger wasn't foot-controlled: the rider was just required to reach down to move the control lever. I think the model was called Compétition. Example here

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1041/ ... 1496240786

The Breveté SGDG marking isn't the model. It's an old type of French patent mark. It dates me when I see here that it went out of use in 1968. More to the point, it may help you to date your double clanger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brevet%C3%A9_SGDG

You do see "Juy" on a lot of Simplex stuff and Lucien Juy was Mr Simplex.

I'll take a stab at your rear mech being a Huret Svelto

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1041/ ... 1620755359

https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site/hu ... style.html
MsMellie
Posts: 33
Joined: 7 Sep 2021, 3:00pm

Re: Help with a vintage bicycle identification

Post by MsMellie »

thirdcrank wrote: 21 Sep 2021, 3:25pm A couple of minor notes. Your double clanger wasn't foot-controlled: the rider was just required to reach down to move the control lever. I think the model was called Compétition. Example here

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1041/ ... 1496240786

The Breveté SGDG marking isn't the model. It's an old type of French patent mark. It dates me when I see here that it went out of use in 1968. More to the point, it may help you to date your double clanger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brevet%C3%A9_SGDG

You do see "Juy" on a lot of Simplex stuff and Lucien Juy was Mr Simplex.

I'll take a stab at your rear mech being a Huret Svelto

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1041/ ... 1620755359

https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site/hu ... style.html
Thank you for that research you did!

Yes, you're quite right about it being hand-controlled but at the time of my post I hadn't even considered the option of reaching down that far (and far it seemed then!) and I had read on similar shifters that were foot-operated and had just assumed. Now I shift comfortably with hand and it is a precise little wonder.

Hm, I didn't know about the patent thing. Will be looking into it. I have examined the shifter and I was unable to find any more markings but web research came up with a few Simplex Competition pages, just like you said above. They sell them online under that name too.

I was sure about it being a Svelto, as it has that name engraved on it.

Thanks again for all of your time. My research is still going strong and I keep on finding out bits and pieces about the bike and the company.
thirdcrank
Posts: 36764
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Help with a vintage bicycle identification

Post by thirdcrank »

Glad to be of help but 99% of that was from memory, verified (for my reassurance) online. Hence my comment about SGDG ending in 1968 - they never informed me. But then they rarely do.
User avatar
Chris Jeggo
Posts: 571
Joined: 3 Jul 2010, 9:44am
Location: Woking, Surrey

Re: Help with a vintage bicycle identification

Post by Chris Jeggo »

Not your model but some similarities:
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anz ... -217-16350
Wilhelmus
Posts: 124
Joined: 19 Oct 2021, 4:35pm

Re: Help with a vintage bicycle identification

Post by Wilhelmus »

.
Last edited by Wilhelmus on 25 Nov 2021, 1:45pm, edited 1 time in total.
MsMellie
Posts: 33
Joined: 7 Sep 2021, 3:00pm

Re: Help with a vintage bicycle identification

Post by MsMellie »

Hello all,

So I've been researching some more and I have an update: I've mailed the company that holds the Victoria brand currently and found out that they took it over in the 90's and they hold no older records of models. So that one is a dead end. I'll try to find whoever owned the brand between 1958. and that time (I think I've seen the name on the net).

Many thanks to everyone still adding info to this thread, it keeps my spirits up!
Slowtwitch
Posts: 744
Joined: 25 Oct 2021, 11:35pm

Re: Help with a vintage bicycle identification

Post by Slowtwitch »

Very nice looking bike indeed - would it be rude to ask how much you paid for it?
colin54
Posts: 2517
Joined: 24 Sep 2013, 4:34pm

Re: Help with a vintage bicycle identification

Post by colin54 »

I often read this English language,German web-site (blog ?) 'starostneradost'.The author writes about the vintage German and British bikes which he rides and collects. It may be worth contacting him about your 'Victoria-Werke' if you need any additional information. He has reponded to comments I've made on his posts and has answered a query, or possibly two that Brucey from this forum has sent him in the past. I find it an interesting site, giving a European perspective on cycling.
I meant to post this information before, but it slipped my mind, apologies.
https://starostneradost.wordpress.com/
Nu-Fogey
Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 20697
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Help with a vintage bicycle identification

Post by Vorpal »

There are some similarities between your bike and this one https://oldbike.wordpress.com/1949-vict ... el-engine/

They are clearly manufactured by the same company.

As for the other companies that owned the Victoria brand, it seems that there was a series of buy-outs. First, Victoria merged with DKW and Express Werke AG, forming the Zweirad Union, which was subsequently bought by Fichtel & Sachs.

Here is a translated German Wikipedia article about Victoria Werke https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.go ... tr_pto=nui
And in case that doesn't work, here is the original, which you can stick in a translator https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria-Werke

It seems that the brand was not used for some years, so you may not find much between 1958 & the recent incarnation.

Poking around German sites, though, I found a couple of other things that might be helpful. Although it seems more motorcycle oriented, there is a site for Victoria enthusiasts, and it appears to be kept up-to-date, so they might be able to help https://victoria-ig.de/

I've also found some Victoria bikes for sale, so you could potentially compare yours with others https://kleinanzeige.focus.de/freizeit- ... timer.html

This place seems to restore & sell historic bikes & has 3 Victorias on their pages http://fahrrad-martini.de/pages/historische.html
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
MsMellie
Posts: 33
Joined: 7 Sep 2021, 3:00pm

Re: Help with a vintage bicycle identification

Post by MsMellie »

Slowtwitch wrote: 26 Oct 2021, 9:58pm Very nice looking bike indeed - would it be rude to ask how much you paid for it?
Not at all! The price was 50 euros. Found it online on a large sales portal. The guy who sold it to me got it in a decent shape before selling, but he was no bike pro just happened to own it.
MsMellie
Posts: 33
Joined: 7 Sep 2021, 3:00pm

Re: Help with a vintage bicycle identification

Post by MsMellie »

Vorpal wrote: 27 Oct 2021, 2:52am There are some similarities between your bike and this one https://oldbike.wordpress.com/1949-vict ... el-engine/

They are clearly manufactured by the same company.

As for the other companies that owned the Victoria brand, it seems that there was a series of buy-outs. First, Victoria merged with DKW and Express Werke AG, forming the Zweirad Union, which was subsequently bought by Fichtel & Sachs.

Here is a translated German Wikipedia article about Victoria Werke https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.go ... tr_pto=nui
And in case that doesn't work, here is the original, which you can stick in a translator https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria-Werke

It seems that the brand was not used for some years, so you may not find much between 1958 & the recent incarnation.

Poking around German sites, though, I found a couple of other things that might be helpful. Although it seems more motorcycle oriented, there is a site for Victoria enthusiasts, and it appears to be kept up-to-date, so they might be able to help https://victoria-ig.de/

I've also found some Victoria bikes for sale, so you could potentially compare yours with others https://kleinanzeige.focus.de/freizeit- ... timer.html

This place seems to restore & sell historic bikes & has 3 Victorias on their pages http://fahrrad-martini.de/pages/historische.html
That is a lot of quality information! I will go through each of these and see what I can find out. Thank you very much!
Post Reply