Cotic Roadrat vs Charge Plug vs other?

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Benz3ne
Posts: 252
Joined: 25 May 2021, 8:53am

Cotic Roadrat vs Charge Plug vs other?

Post by Benz3ne »

Howdy y'all. What lovely weather we're having lately... :roll:
I'm hitting a milestone birthday this year and, with the recent development of becoming a one-car household, I'm looking to purchase a new (to me, second-hand in reality) bike for the purposes of commuting on it year-round.
Presently, I'm on a B'Twin 500SE with Ksyrium rims, on the original Hutchinson 23mm semi-slicks. The bike is nice enough to ride, but it doesn't exactly instil me with confidence during particularly wet/sandy weather.
I'm looking at some of the above - notably, they're steel frames with chunkier tyres. The additional weight might take a little getting used to, but I'm willing to put that graft in for the 6-and-a-bit miles each way for my commute.

Does anyone have any thoughts on bikes fitting this niche? I'll probably not be looking to spend any more than £1k in the near future, and would prefer to have hydraulic disc brakes (or cable-actuated hydraulics like the TRP Hy Rd) and drop bars.

Cheers all - diolch pawb!
rotavator
Posts: 987
Joined: 6 Jun 2016, 9:50pm
Location: North Wales

Re: Cotic Roadrat vs Charge Plug vs other?

Post by rotavator »

I had a Roadrat and I liked it apart from the adapter to fit the rear derailer which was a bit of a faff to engage/disengage when removing/replacing the rear wheel; this is not what you want when trying to fix a puncture on your morning commute. On the other hand this drop-out arrangement would allow you to use a single speed or hub gear if that is what you are planning or may do in the future.

I think some versions may lack the "flexible drop-out arrangement" but it is definitely something to check before you splash the cash.
slowster
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Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Cotic Roadrat vs Charge Plug vs other?

Post by slowster »

I suggest you provide more information about your commute. Whether or not it is hilly (and how hilly) can make the difference between a bike being ideal or a poor choice. Furthermore what exactly do you mean by 'sandy', since that could be important in determining what bike to choose and the specification/set up.
Jupestar
Posts: 920
Joined: 29 Feb 2020, 3:03pm

Re: Cotic Roadrat vs Charge Plug vs other?

Post by Jupestar »

The bike choices above a quite interesting. Your B'Twin is presumable derailluer geared. Are you looking to stick with that? or are you now looking at single speed or hub gears?

If your sticking with a RD, then getting steel disc frame bike shouldn't be that hard.

There are Steel Charge Plug's (i think Charge Plug 5) with Disc tabs and RD hangers, but they don't come up that often, and they normally have a decent re-sale value. I'd be in the market for one.

I have Charge Mixer's. More common in my size, they were built for Hub gears, but easy converted to single speed, but it's not straightforward to get a RD on it. You can, but its not optimal, and a big faff to set up, and adjust especially if you need to fix a puncture.
Jupestar
Posts: 920
Joined: 29 Feb 2020, 3:03pm

Re: Cotic Roadrat vs Charge Plug vs other?

Post by Jupestar »

rotavator wrote: 25 Oct 2021, 12:07pm I had a Roadrat and I liked it apart from the adapter to fit the rear derailer which was a bit of a faff to engage/disengage when removing/replacing the rear wheel; this is not what you want when trying to fix a puncture on your morning commute. On the other hand this drop-out arrangement would allow you to use a single speed or hub gear if that is what you are planning or may do in the future.
Is this the drop out /RD arrangement?
cotic.jpg
I had something similar before, did not like it at all. Worst still are when the 'RD's hangers fits over the axle, you end up dismantling a drive chain to fix a puncture.

If you want the option of RD/SS/HUB with Disc brakes i think the best solution is EBB, with standard rear drop out. I have a lovely looking Ridgeback Flight Frame in this configuation, sat in the cellar while i fail to find a EBB to fit!
Benz3ne
Posts: 252
Joined: 25 May 2021, 8:53am

Re: Cotic Roadrat vs Charge Plug vs other?

Post by Benz3ne »

rotavator wrote: 25 Oct 2021, 12:07pm I had a Roadrat and I liked it apart from the adapter to fit the rear derailer which was a bit of a faff to engage/disengage when removing/replacing the rear wheel; this is not what you want when trying to fix a puncture on your morning commute. On the other hand this drop-out arrangement would allow you to use a single speed or hub gear if that is what you are planning or may do in the future.

I think some versions may lack the "flexible drop-out arrangement" but it is definitely something to check before you splash the cash.
Jupestar wrote: 25 Oct 2021, 2:29pm
Is this the drop out /RD arrangement?
cotic.jpg
I had something similar before, did not like it at all. Worst still are when the 'RD's hangers fits over the axle, you end up dismantling a drive chain to fix a puncture.

If you want the option of RD/SS/HUB with Disc brakes i think the best solution is EBB, with standard rear drop out. I have a lovely looking Ridgeback Flight Frame in this configuation, sat in the cellar while i fail to find a EBB to fit!
Good info about this - I'd read that the dropout/hanger arrangement could be a PITA (pain in the...) but I didn't know how much of an issue it might be. If it'll be a prospective issue for changing flats, then that's something I'd rather avoid.
Benz3ne
Posts: 252
Joined: 25 May 2021, 8:53am

Re: Cotic Roadrat vs Charge Plug vs other?

Post by Benz3ne »

slowster wrote: 25 Oct 2021, 12:50pm I suggest you provide more information about your commute. Whether or not it is hilly (and how hilly) can make the difference between a bike being ideal or a poor choice. Furthermore what exactly do you mean by 'sandy', since that could be important in determining what bike to choose and the specification/set up.
Good suggestion, thank you. It's downhilly for the first mile and a half to work, then along the foreshore in Swansea so plenty of sand is either blowing, or has blown, off the vast bay and onto the aforementioned foreshore. The commute back, therefore, is hilly for the last mile and a half. It's something I'm acclimatising slowly to with the current bike, for sure. I've been doing the commute for about 7 months now and I'm finding it significantly easier than when I first started already.
As for the sand, it's more of a pain for rim brakes and slick tyres than I'd imagine it being for discs and wider, more knurled tyres. I typically hose and dry my bike if it's particularly caked in sand.
Benz3ne
Posts: 252
Joined: 25 May 2021, 8:53am

Re: Cotic Roadrat vs Charge Plug vs other?

Post by Benz3ne »

Jupestar wrote: 25 Oct 2021, 2:09pm The bike choices above a quite interesting. Your B'Twin is presumable derailluer geared. Are you looking to stick with that? or are you now looking at single speed or hub gears?

If your sticking with a RD, then getting steel disc frame bike shouldn't be that hard.

There are Steel Charge Plug's (i think Charge Plug 5) with Disc tabs and RD hangers, but they don't come up that often, and they normally have a decent re-sale value. I'd be in the market for one.

I have Charge Mixer's. More common in my size, they were built for Hub gears, but easy converted to single speed, but it's not straightforward to get a RD on it. You can, but its not optimal, and a big faff to set up, and adjust especially if you need to fix a puncture.
Correct, it is indeed derailleur-geared (Claris, 8x3 but the I use only the 50t and 39t rings on the crankset). I'll look to stick with that as it's what I know, really. I'm quite happy with how they perform as a rule and I'm not too shy from learning bike maintenance so they tick a box in that regard.
Yup, they also have the Plug 4 and 3 I think, that are Tange Infinity steel rather than Tange Prestige in the 5 (from what I've read), with gearset differences between them too (3 = Tiagra, 4 = 105, 5 = SRAM Rival, generally).
As for the bike choices above, it's based on bikes that I have seen for sale. You're bang on about the decent re-sale value though, they've held their own and, frankly, I don't think I'd be concerned about the price dropping by much if I did fork out for one.
Jupestar
Posts: 920
Joined: 29 Feb 2020, 3:03pm

Re: Cotic Roadrat vs Charge Plug vs other?

Post by Jupestar »

Benz3ne wrote: 25 Oct 2021, 2:50pm Good info about this - I'd read that the dropout/hanger arrangement could be a PITA (pain in the...) but I didn't know how much of an issue it might be. If it'll be a prospective issue for changing flats, then that's something I'd rather avoid.
You also need to factor in that the disc caliper needs to move with respect to where the wheel axis is on the drop outs. This is easier with Hydro's than mechanicals. and you do have the similar issue with rims, but its a bit easier to manage as your just moving pads.

It all doable on the road, it just takes a bit longer, and/or clever use of chain tugs to make sure you get wheel alignment right.
Benz3ne wrote: 25 Oct 2021, 2:57pm Yup, they also have the Plug 4 and 3 I think, that are Tange Infinity steel rather than Tange Prestige in the 5
Some of these are alloy, so worth being sure. If you happen to see one Steel and XL. I'd welcome a heads up.

My Charge Mixers are Infinity, On sat, I put 35mm Panaracer Gravel Kings on it - about the biggest it will go, and did 100k 'Gravel' Ride. In terms of comfort it was absolutely spot on. some gears would have been nice for the legs though!
Benz3ne
Posts: 252
Joined: 25 May 2021, 8:53am

Re: Cotic Roadrat vs Charge Plug vs other?

Post by Benz3ne »

Jupestar wrote: 25 Oct 2021, 3:10pm
Benz3ne wrote: 25 Oct 2021, 2:50pm Good info about this - I'd read that the dropout/hanger arrangement could be a PITA (pain in the...) but I didn't know how much of an issue it might be. If it'll be a prospective issue for changing flats, then that's something I'd rather avoid.
You also need to factor in that the disc caliper needs to move with respect to where the wheel axis is on the drop outs. This is easier with Hydro's than mechanicals. and you do have the similar issue with rims, but its a bit easier to manage as your just moving pads.

It all doable on the road, it just takes a bit longer, and/or clever use of chain tugs to make sure you get wheel alignment right.
Benz3ne wrote: 25 Oct 2021, 2:57pm Yup, they also have the Plug 4 and 3 I think, that are Tange Infinity steel rather than Tange Prestige in the 5
Some of these are alloy, so worth being sure. If you happen to see one Steel and XL. I'd welcome a heads up.

My Charge Mixers are Infinity, On sat, I put 35mm Panaracer Gravel Kings on it - about the biggest it will go, and did 100k 'Gravel' Ride. In terms of comfort it was absolutely spot on. some gears would have been nice for the legs though!
Excellent info regarding the caliper and alignment. I'd almost definitely be going for hydro brakes, however.
Correct, the alloy is one of the newer Charge Plug '4' if I'm not getting too mixed up, but it's quite obviously 'fatter' and has almost a wishbone-shaped connection to the seatstay towards the rear of the bike (tube names getting beyond me at this point).
I'll be sure to keep my eyes peeled for an XL one for you.
I've heard that, in reality, the Infinity isn't that far away from the Prestige in terms of weight and comfort, but it all depends on how deep you want to get into it all.
Comfort is king, I reckon. I don't want to be battling through some icy rain and winds only to be juddered to hell and back by an unforgiving frame... hence my 'deviation' from a 'strictly'-road bike.
Jupestar
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Joined: 29 Feb 2020, 3:03pm

Re: Cotic Roadrat vs Charge Plug vs other?

Post by Jupestar »

My Charge Cooker is Prestige. I can't say i notice much difference.

Its usually built up with hub gears, Front suspension, and a child seat. So any weight benefits are lost.

Depending how far you want to move from road specific, A cooker could be a consideration. Never built it with drops, so don't know how it would ride, but the frame itself is not that much different just takes even wider tyres.
slowster
Moderator
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Re: Cotic Roadrat vs Charge Plug vs other?

Post by slowster »

Benz3ne wrote: 25 Oct 2021, 2:53pm It's downhilly for the first mile and a half to work, then along the foreshore in Swansea so plenty of sand is either blowing, or has blown, off the vast bay and onto the aforementioned foreshore. The commute back, therefore, is hilly for the last mile and a half. It's something I'm acclimatising slowly to with the current bike, for sure. I've been doing the commute for about 7 months now and I'm finding it significantly easier than when I first started already.
As for the sand, it's more of a pain for rim brakes and slick tyres than I'd imagine it being for discs and wider, more knurled tyres. I typically hose and dry my bike if it's particularly caked in sand.
Derailleur gears are a lousy choice for such conditions. The following will minimise drivetrain wear and maintenance:

If a 135mm rear spaced frame designed for disk brakes with track ends/rear opening dropouts or an eccentric bottom bracket, then this 3 speed Sturmey Archer hub:

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hubs-intern ... r-36-hole/

Fit a Hebie Chainglider:

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chainsets/3 ... ont-black/

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/chainsets/1 ... ear-black/

The hub will need an occasional squirt of semi-fluid grease in the hollow axle for the gears, and chain lubrication will be far less frequent. With a 38t front chainring and, say, 21t rear sprocket, that would give the following gearing, which you can use the webpage's 'Compare' function to compare with your current gearing:

http://www.ritzelrechner.de/?GR=SAAW&KB ... gearInches

If you happened to come across an older frame with 120mm spacing or thereabouts, the 70mm drum brake version of the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub would be an even better choice combined with the matching drum front hub, i.e. zero maintenance for the brakes:

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hubs-intern ... l-36-hole/
mattsccm
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 9:44pm

Re: Cotic Roadrat vs Charge Plug vs other?

Post by mattsccm »

Can't comment from experience on the Roadrat so may be talking twaddle here. I have Cotic X. Sold at the time, early 2011, as a sporty up market version of the RR. Same steel. Rides like a railway iron. Twice as heavy.
Avoid the steel forks with the disc brake on the right side.
Apart from the theory that says that they stop the wheel popping out when braking, they have nothing good about them apart from great value when you come to weigh them in at the scrappy. Harsh ride and heavy.
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squeaker
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Location: Sussex

Re: Cotic Roadrat vs Charge Plug vs other?

Post by squeaker »

Have owned a Roadrat from 2009, built from new frame/forks as an 1x8 with derailleur and mechanical disks. Rear facing dropouts are a pain, especially with mudguards. Very supple ride on 559 wheels with 40mm Vittoria Rubino Pro-Slicks. Not lightweight, but it was built up with what spare parts I had!
Roland2018.jpg
HTH

Edited to correct the tyre brand/type :oops: and add photo
"42"
Benz3ne
Posts: 252
Joined: 25 May 2021, 8:53am

Re: Cotic Roadrat vs Charge Plug vs other?

Post by Benz3ne »

Thanks everyone for the comments - very useful info all around.
Long story short, I went to see a bike yesterday, was smitten with it so brought it home.
It is a largely unused Charge Plug 5, tange prestige tubing, medium size, with the OG tyres on (I'm looking at wider replacements for the Kenda Quick Tendril 28mm's). A couple of very minor marks from bike locks on the seatstay but overall it's pretty immaculate.
It was advertised as 2x10 SRAM Rival but in fact is 2x11. Shifting is super crisp, especially compared to my outdated Microshift/Claris combo on the old bike. Hydraulic brakes were bled around a year or so ago and it's been used for 300 miles over the last two years, so it's pretty spotless. Popped my Look Keo's on there so
The only other change I fancy making is some flared bars. The charge bars are 44cm, my old road bike was 42cm and I'm thinking of 40cm with a medium flare to have the best of both worlds.
I'll look to get a couple of pictures up at some point, but here's an artsy-fartsy little teaser.
Image
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