so how do bicycles work ...

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
Jules59
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Re: so how do bicycles work ...

Post by Jules59 »

Digressing a bit and looking at how we learn to ride a bike...
The Backwards bike
https://youtu.be/MFzDaBzBlL0
UpWrong
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Re: so how do bicycles work ...

Post by UpWrong »

Jdsk wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 11:02am Does anyone deliberately discuss counter-steering when helping people to learn to ride a bike? I don't.

Jonathan
It's how I was trained by police instructors to steer a motorbike.
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Mick F
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Re: so how do bicycles work ...

Post by Mick F »

531colin wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 3:47pm
Mick F wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 3:24pm
531colin wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 2:13pm Whats "fork trail" please, Mick?
You have a good explanation on many a thread.
Have I used the wrong expression?

Head angle down to the road, with the forks giving the front axle behind so the front wheel trails and castors.
Have I got that right?
Thats trail. Your Mercian is a short trail design....twitchy/lively, etc.
I was trying to stop us getting mired in some of the usual ambiguities....fork rake, fork offset.......the old myth that a big fork offset produces a stable bike, when the opposite is true.....
Thanks Colin. :D
Mick F. Cornwall
fastpedaller
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Re: so how do bicycles work ...

Post by fastpedaller »

OOer.... I'm now concerned (after seeing the video) that I know what's happening and as a consequence, I won't be able to ride my bike anymore :(
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531colin
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Re: so how do bicycles work ...

Post by 531colin »

fastpedaller wrote: 2 Dec 2021, 10:05am OOer.... I'm now concerned (after seeing the video) that I know what's happening and as a consequence, I won't be able to ride my bike anymore :(
Yeah, but you had your eyes open to watch the vid........

So riding your bike will be OK with your eyes shut.
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531colin
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Re: so how do bicycles work ...

Post by 531colin »

rogerzilla wrote: 1 Dec 2021, 5:41pm The bike needs the rider to steer it around a corner no-hands by leaning, but it doesn't need the rider to travel in a straight line.
...................
If you had a perfectly level, smooth road, perfectly still air, and you sat perfectly still and perfectly balanced on the bike, perhaps you would go in a straight line.
I have never had the opportunity to test it.....around here, the roads have camber as well as other random slopes and patchy surface; the wind is variously deflected by hedges, trees and stuff like that; there is also the necessity to pedal sometimes, to keep to the appropriate side of the road and keep alert for other road users, and (in my case) the desire to keep an eye on the scenery and a lookout for wildlife.
All this results in continuously making slight adjustments in order to go "straight" down the road.
rogerzilla
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Re: so how do bicycles work ...

Post by rogerzilla »

But the point is that the bike will make those slight adjustments itself. When I say "straight line", of course camber and wind will affect it; it hasn't got a keel and a compass.
David2504
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Re: so how do bicycles work ...

Post by David2504 »

Interesting stuff. However I hope I forget all about it when I next ride my bike, and just do what comes naturally!
rogerzilla
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Re: so how do bicycles work ...

Post by rogerzilla »

Well, yes, we all do it without thinking. Apparently motorcyclists don't, though (more weight) and have to learn to countersteer. I think learners try to steer a motorbike a bit like a car.
tatanab
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Re: so how do bicycles work ...

Post by tatanab »

rogerzilla wrote: 3 Dec 2021, 3:08pmApparently motorcyclists don't, though (more weight) and have to learn to countersteer.
Not so. What happens is that in extreme riding (thing MotoGP) the riders train themselves to force a countersteer so that they can turn more abruptly on the line they choose as optimal. On this very forum you will find threads about forcing countersteer on pedal cycles too.
Jdsk
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Re: so how do bicycles work ...

Post by Jdsk »

tatanab wrote: 3 Dec 2021, 3:26pm
rogerzilla wrote: 3 Dec 2021, 3:08pmApparently motorcyclists don't, though (more weight) and have to learn to countersteer.
Not so. What happens is that in extreme riding (thing MotoGP) the riders train themselves to force a countersteer so that they can turn more abruptly on the line they choose as optimal. On this very forum you will find threads about forcing countersteer on pedal cycles too.
Learning on a low-powered motorbike at low speed is very similar to learning on an HPV. (And I don't think that I've heard counter-steering mentioned in CBT sessions.) Beyond those conditions other techniques become important.

I think that I'm agreeing...

Jonathan
jackg
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Re: so how do bicycles work ...

Post by jackg »

From Physics Today April 1970. Nothing new really.

https://home.phys.ntnu.no/brukdef/under ... icycle.pdf
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