so how do bicycles work ...
Re: so how do bicycles work ...
Good spot. That's an excellent video with clear demonstrations and explanations of the physics involved in steering a bike - and why you can't even ride a bike if you can't steer it - all packed into 11 entertaining minutes. Highly recommended.
Re: so how do bicycles work ...
If you get a chance try riding a racing trike aka barrow.
They work opposite a regular bike, very entertaining and educational.
They work opposite a regular bike, very entertaining and educational.
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Deutsche Luftschiffahrts-AG
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Deutsche Luftschiffahrts-AG
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Re: so how do bicycles work ...
A bike will ride itself*, at least in a straight line. It needs no help from you. As long as the steering moves freely enough, it self-corrects as it starts to topple. It's an astonishing invention, really.
*you can easily prove this by pushing it downhill, but it's best to do it with soneone else's bike
*you can easily prove this by pushing it downhill, but it's best to do it with soneone else's bike
Re: so how do bicycles work ...
It's true that a bike will steer itself. No argument from me.
Trouble is, when you put a person on it, the centre of gravity changes and it's not as simple any more. Some frame geometries are more stable than others.
Trouble is, when you put a person on it, the centre of gravity changes and it's not as simple any more. Some frame geometries are more stable than others.
Mick F. Cornwall
Re: so how do bicycles work ...
Its an interesting piece of trivia, but has nothing to do with how we actually balance a bike.rogerzilla wrote: ↑1 Dec 2021, 7:05am A bike will ride itself*, at least in a straight line. It needs no help from you. As long as the steering moves freely enough, it self-corrects as it starts to topple. It's an astonishing invention, really.
*you can easily prove this by pushing it downhill, but it's best to do it with soneone else's bike
(a 30 pound bike can't possibly hold up a 15 stone rider)
Bike fitting D.I.Y. .....http://wheel-easy.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/bike-set-up-2017a.pdf
Tracks in the Dales etc...http://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/collections/
Tracks in the Dales etc...http://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/collections/
Re: so how do bicycles work ...
Thanks for posting.
I'd never thought of demonstrating it with that sort of modification. But I've often looked for a recording of steering angle as turns are initiated. You can almost get that from the head-on shots in the video, but a plot would be nice.
Highly Recommended, as always: "Bicycling Science":
https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/bicyclin ... th-edition
Jonathan
I'd never thought of demonstrating it with that sort of modification. But I've often looked for a recording of steering angle as turns are initiated. You can almost get that from the head-on shots in the video, but a plot would be nice.
Highly Recommended, as always: "Bicycling Science":
https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/bicyclin ... th-edition
Jonathan
Re: so how do bicycles work ...
Does anyone deliberately discuss counter-steering when helping people to learn to ride a bike? I don't.
Jonathan
Jonathan
Re: so how do bicycles work ...
I find the whole business of countersteering interesting.
("countersteering" is, I think, the name given to how you turn the handlebars to the left in order to lean the bike to the right to initiate a right turn.)
I have no doubt that countersteering is how I initiate a turn on a motorbike which weighs more than I do.
On a bicycle, when I'm riding "hands on" I may do the same.
When I'm riding a bicycle "no hands" I don't think I can countersteer.
Riding no hands I think what happens is I lean the bike in the direction I want to steer; the handlebars turn in the right direction due to "wheel flop" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_a ... e_geometry
I can't think how you might do countersteering "no hands"......To initiate a right turn, I have to countersteer left; but in order to steer left I must lean left, which actually initiates a left turn.
("countersteering" is, I think, the name given to how you turn the handlebars to the left in order to lean the bike to the right to initiate a right turn.)
I have no doubt that countersteering is how I initiate a turn on a motorbike which weighs more than I do.
On a bicycle, when I'm riding "hands on" I may do the same.
When I'm riding a bicycle "no hands" I don't think I can countersteer.
Riding no hands I think what happens is I lean the bike in the direction I want to steer; the handlebars turn in the right direction due to "wheel flop" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_a ... e_geometry
I can't think how you might do countersteering "no hands"......To initiate a right turn, I have to countersteer left; but in order to steer left I must lean left, which actually initiates a left turn.
Bike fitting D.I.Y. .....http://wheel-easy.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/bike-set-up-2017a.pdf
Tracks in the Dales etc...http://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/collections/
Tracks in the Dales etc...http://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/collections/
Re: so how do bicycles work ...
Riding a bike is a conditioned reflex, like walking. Thinking about what you are doing is probably unhelpful?
Bike fitting D.I.Y. .....http://wheel-easy.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/bike-set-up-2017a.pdf
Tracks in the Dales etc...http://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/collections/
Tracks in the Dales etc...http://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/collections/
Re: so how do bicycles work ...
I actively discuss many of the component skills. And encourage the learner to think about many of the things that they are doing while they're doing them. But not this one... it's complicated and I don't think that it would help. But maybe we should do the experiment... ?
Jonathan
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Re: so how do bicycles work ...
There's a phenomenon known to psychologists whereby attempting to explain a skill that's performed intuitively ruins the teacher's ability to perform that skill. I think there's a famous case of an ace golfer who went from winning everything to losing everything after writing a book about how to do it.Jdsk wrote: ↑1 Dec 2021, 11:14amI actively discuss many of the component skills. And encourage the learner to think about many of the things that they are doing while they're doing them. But not this one... it's complicated and I don't think that it would help. But maybe we should do the experiment... ?
Jonathan
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
― Friedrich Nietzsche
Re: so how do bicycles work ...
That makes sense.axel_knutt wrote: ↑1 Dec 2021, 11:29amThere's a phenomenon known to psychologists whereby attempting to explain a skill that's performed intuitively ruins the teacher's ability to perform that skill. I think there's a famous case of an ace golfer who went from winning everything to losing everything after writing a book about how to do it.Jdsk wrote: ↑1 Dec 2021, 11:14amI actively discuss many of the component skills. And encourage the learner to think about many of the things that they are doing while they're doing them. But not this one... it's complicated and I don't think that it would help. But maybe we should do the experiment... ?
Jonathan
I think truly good coaches know how to guide someone to perform a skill well - they don't simply describe what they do, then tell their student to "do that"!
(the opposite is usually true with conscious/cerebral skills - wiring a plug, or long division maybe. TEACHING can make you better at the skill - or sometimes show you that you're not quite the expert you thought you were !)
Re: so how do bicycles work ...
However it is that I ride a bike, it made me look a complete idiot when I tried to ride a tricycle. You'd think it would be more or less impossible to fall off one, but I'm not so sure.