High end steel frames: are they worth it?

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fastpedaller
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Re: High end steel frames: are they worth it?

Post by fastpedaller »

landsurfer wrote:The Jamis and SPA frame have the same pump mount, in the same place on the rear of the headstock ...

Maybe I was out on the percentiles!
My Spa doesn't have a pump mount - which Spa model is yours?
NetworkMan
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Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 11:13am
Location: South Devon

Re: High end steel frames: are they worth it?

Post by NetworkMan »

fastpedaller wrote:
landsurfer wrote:The Jamis and SPA frame have the same pump mount, in the same place on the rear of the headstock ...

Maybe I was out on the percentiles!
My Spa doesn't have a pump mount - which Spa model is yours?

They've added the peg since we bought ours FP. If you look at the red bike on the website you can see it. I've got one on my new Spa Ti Audax but my frame fit pump is too short and I use a Topeak Road Morph anyway. If they'd put in extra bottle bosses under the down tube I could have put the Topeak there.
landsurfer
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Re: High end steel frames: are they worth it?

Post by landsurfer »

fastpedaller wrote:
landsurfer wrote:The Jamis and SPA frame have the same pump mount, in the same place on the rear of the headstock ...

Maybe I was out on the percentiles!
My Spa doesn't have a pump mount - which Spa model is yours?


Steel Tourer... love it ... Gentleman's long distance bicycle. .. though I used the stripped down Jamis for my LEJOG.
The SPA is my rough stuff and bad weather bike ... reinforced frame and mudguards... top class kit.

Jamis below.


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The road goes on forever.
BigFoz
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Re: High end steel frames: are they worth it?

Post by BigFoz »

I've (far too many) steel frames of varying quality and lightness. The 2 best are my 1995 Colnago Super Piu, which does ride sublimely. However, my 1983 Carlton Professional Mk 5 is my most ridden bike,heavier (not much...) than the Colnago it rides almost as well, slightly less lively / responsive feel, but still a joy. So much so that the Carlton is now kitted with modern components and a 3x9 drivetrain for Scottish commuting. Fabulous. The Colnago gets ridden in dry warm sunny weather only. Colnago builds up (Campag Record 9) at 9.3Kg, and the Carlton with its 3x9, pump and toolbag, at 10.2, so in reality, not a lot of difference.

I previously had a Colnago Master X-Lite, which built up with Record 9 came under 9Kg. Best eBay I ever did, bike with DuraAce £550, sold all the DuraAce for £450, built up with Record 9 spares, rode for 5 years (It was a size too small, and I eventually admitted it), stripped back down and sold Frame for almost what I paid for the whole bike! One day (When I retire?) I will get another Master X-Lite in the right size.
steady eddy
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Location: Norfolk

Re: High end steel frames: are they worth it?

Post by steady eddy »

This Pilgrim steel audax bike is an absolute joy to ride -10.5 kgs with rack and mudguards. I love it.
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PH
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Re: High end steel frames: are they worth it?

Post by PH »

I want my bikes designed by a master craftsman and constructed by a competent engineer. I'm not bothered where either are based and while I'm aware of some shoddy construction in the past I think it does mainly belong to the past. You don't have to spend huge sums of money for a frame that's been well put together, you may like the aesthetic of fancy lugs, but TIG welding on tubes designed for it seems a perfectly sound method of construction and neat welding has it's own attractiveness. What a full custom frame should get you is something to specifically meet your requirements, based on your usage, riding style, preferences, size and weight. At best you'll get the builders interpretation of that, going to two builders with the same requirements won't necessarily result in the same bike. At worst and IME the most common, you'll get one of their stock designs with some slight tweaking of size and your choice of braze ons and colour. Maybe some people have learnt exactly what works for them, but for most of us there's always an element of chance. I've had a few frames, nothing like as many as some on here, I've preferred some over others but I haven't had a really bad one, by which I mean one that detracted from the pleasure of cycling.
peetee
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Re: High end steel frames: are they worth it?

Post by peetee »

In answer to the OP as to whether they are worth it, it depends on two main things IMHO.
Firstly, if your demands are high eg heavily loaded touring, specific carrying requirements, racing, then yes, a properly designed and constructed high specification steel frame has distinct advantages as every aspect of the frames tubing, dimensions and fittings can be tailored to your needs.
Secondly, if you are tuned to your riding and derive pleasure and interest from the way your bike responds to you and the road then a custom steel frame can be a joy to own. In fact I would go so far as to say that unless you fall into the second catagory you won't really get the full benefit from a bespoke build partly because you won't know what to ask for and/or you wont notice the differences over a stock frame.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
iandriver
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Re: High end steel frames: are they worth it?

Post by iandriver »

I don't know if it's just me, but the price of imported frame sets seems to have jumped up to me recently.

The Planet X and Ribbles etc. seem to be unaffected, but I notice a lot of the Kinseis alloy frame/ Carbon fork range are now in the £700.00 regions.
Same with an ally frame carbon forked Trek, coming in at £800.00 odd for the Checkpoint ALR.

At those prices, a better quality steel frame is starting to look like a bargain.
Supporter of the A10 corridor cycling campaign serving Royston to Cambridge http://a10corridorcycle.com. Never knew gardening secateurs were an essential part of the on bike tool kit until I took up campaigning.....
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bigjim
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Re: High end steel frames: are they worth it?

Post by bigjim »

I want my bikes designed by a master craftsman and constructed by a competent engineer.

I'm a bit on the fence with this. I don't know whether the handbuilt thing, finishing it off with a file etc, brazing by eye and touch, is especially the right thing. Or is far Eastern frame produced on high tech, CNC machines with minute clearances and perfect robotic Laser welds a far safer bet in producing a quality product. Remember those unreliable, oil leaking, hand built BSA and Triumph motorcycles, that were trounced by oil tight, high revving, computer built Japanese machines.
Bonefishblues
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Re: High end steel frames: are they worth it?

Post by Bonefishblues »

bigjim wrote:
I want my bikes designed by a master craftsman and constructed by a competent engineer.

I'm a bit on the fence with this. I don't know whether the handbuilt thing, finishing it off with a file etc, brazing by eye and touch, is especially the right thing. Or is far Eastern frame produced on high tech, CNC machines with minute clearances and perfect robotic Laser welds a far safer bet in producing a quality product. Remember those unreliable, oil leaking, hand built BSA and Triumph motorcycles, that were trounced by oil tight, high revving, computer built Japanese machines.

If the Far East are able to design and deliver bespoke, or tailored options for mass-produced prices, or close to, the industry would change fundamentally. It can't be far away if training shoes can be bespoked already.
Bmblbzzz
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Re: High end steel frames: are they worth it?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Bonefishblues wrote:
bigjim wrote:
I want my bikes designed by a master craftsman and constructed by a competent engineer.

I'm a bit on the fence with this. I don't know whether the handbuilt thing, finishing it off with a file etc, brazing by eye and touch, is especially the right thing. Or is far Eastern frame produced on high tech, CNC machines with minute clearances and perfect robotic Laser welds a far safer bet in producing a quality product. Remember those unreliable, oil leaking, hand built BSA and Triumph motorcycles, that were trounced by oil tight, high revving, computer built Japanese machines.

If the Far East are able to design and deliver bespoke, or tailored options for mass-produced prices, or close to, the industry would change fundamentally. It can't be far away if training shoes can be bespoked already.

There was a firm, at least one, doing this with titanium frames from China. Designed to your spec, you signed off the CAD drawings, they built yours and shipped it to you. XCDA or something like that.
Bonefishblues
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Re: High end steel frames: are they worth it?

Post by Bonefishblues »

Bmblbzzz wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
bigjim wrote:I'm a bit on the fence with this. I don't know whether the handbuilt thing, finishing it off with a file etc, brazing by eye and touch, is especially the right thing. Or is far Eastern frame produced on high tech, CNC machines with minute clearances and perfect robotic Laser welds a far safer bet in producing a quality product. Remember those unreliable, oil leaking, hand built BSA and Triumph motorcycles, that were trounced by oil tight, high revving, computer built Japanese machines.

If the Far East are able to design and deliver bespoke, or tailored options for mass-produced prices, or close to, the industry would change fundamentally. It can't be far away if training shoes can be bespoked already.

There was a firm, at least one, doing this with titanium frames from China. Designed to your spec, you signed off the CAD drawings, they built yours and shipped it to you. XCDA or something like that.

Yes, I know, but the onus is rather more on the cyclist than I'm envisaging. Imagine a service like ordering a bespoke suit where the customer takes some measurements, answers some questions, and in time receives his or her custom bike. No fuss, no faff. I could see that being very attractive to many if the price was right.
PH
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Re: High end steel frames: are they worth it?

Post by PH »

Bonefishblues wrote:
Bmblbzzz wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:If the Far East are able to design and deliver bespoke, or tailored options for mass-produced prices, or close to, the industry would change fundamentally. It can't be far away if training shoes can be bespoked already.

There was a firm, at least one, doing this with titanium frames from China. Designed to your spec, you signed off the CAD drawings, they built yours and shipped it to you. XCDA or something like that.

Yes, I know, but the onus is rather more on the cyclist than I'm envisaging. Imagine a service like ordering a bespoke suit where the customer takes some measurements, answers some questions, and in time receives his or her custom bike. No fuss, no faff. I could see that being very attractive to many if the price was right.


It's a nice idea but the companies who've set themselves up as such go betweens haven't lasted very long. It's probably too time consuming for the savings to be enough to make it pay, plus they're taking on some liability for failures. I had a frame made by XACD, I enjoyed the design and ordering process and spent months on it. I was largely happy with the outcome, but it would have been tough if I wasn't. When it cracked 9 years later I was tempted to do it again, but found an off the peg frame from Thorn which is similar enough without the risk.
scottg
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Re: High end steel frames: are they worth it?

Post by scottg »

bigjim wrote: Remember those unreliable, oil leaking, hand built BSA and Triumph motorcycles, that were trounced by oil tight, high revving, computer built Japanese machines.


Finely made Japanese bikes here, but a bit more money than a Mercian.
The Japanese make the best French bikes.

https://www.jitensha.com/eng/aboutframes_e.html
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Bmblbzzz
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Re: High end steel frames: are they worth it?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

It might be more accurate to describe that style as North American nowadays.
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