Tip - fitting Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tyres

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garethp
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Joined: 7 Oct 2011, 10:31am

Re: Tip - fitting Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tyres

Postby garethp » 7 Oct 2011, 10:33am

I am finding exactly the same problem. Strangely I cycled across India with the same tyres, and then when pumping them up back in the UK they blow off when inflated. Any advice as it's costing me a fortune in inner tubes?!

Snowflake
Posts: 143
Joined: 8 Sep 2011, 10:48pm

Re: Tip - fitting Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tyres

Postby Snowflake » 7 Oct 2011, 11:39am

How odd.........

I run these on all my bikes and have never had to use any tools to put them on, just edge that final lip over gradually with my thumbs........I have often had bruised thumbs for a couple of days after though, similar to those I get after attempting to play on one of those infernal x-box machines.

Having said this the bikes are mainly 26 * 2 tyres, which fell on the rims, and recently I have put them on a tourer with 700c wheels. Initially I thought I had bought the wrong sized tyre as they seemed to keep jumping off the rim. The tie wrap\clip on strap techniques here would have been most useful, wish I had found this thread beforehand :-)

S

aegelstane
Posts: 14
Joined: 6 Aug 2011, 11:09pm

Re: Tip - fitting Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tyres

Postby aegelstane » 23 Jan 2012, 3:36pm

When I were a sprog on Heanor Clarion clubruns a lady named Hilda whose job was fitting tyres at the Raleigh factory in Nottingham was often present. After a puncture had been patched [most of us were too poor to carry spare tubes] there was no problem in refitting the tyre and levers were not needed ! Last saw Hilda and her sister Lena when a fragmented club run struggled along a snowbound, for cars, Buxton - Ashbourne road one Winter's afternoon c1952. I think that we all made it down to the Via Gellia but often wonder about Hilda and Lena! :|

Binkyboy
Posts: 77
Joined: 29 Oct 2010, 5:05pm

Re: Tip - fitting Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tyres

Postby Binkyboy » 21 Feb 2012, 2:42pm

The most important thing to remember is : -

when removing any tyre from any rim is to START removal at the valve, and

when fitting any tyre onto any rim is to FINISH at the valve.

By doing that, you allow the tyre to drop down into the well of the rim oposite the valve, and thus allow a little more room for the bead to slip over the rim at the final point.

I learnt that hundreds of years ago when I was fitting car tyres onto wheels when they were still being fitted with inner tubes. Think you can "stretch" a car tyre? - think again!

Michelin say to do it this way on their website.http://www.michelin.co.uk/bicycle/learn ... ndard-tyre The illustration shows the valve position, but it is not very obvious, but the words do emhasise it: -


5. To install the second bead, always start opposite the valve and position the bead in the rim bed. Make sure the bead is working into the drop centre of the rim to ease mounting. Finish the tyre mounting at the valve.
Note: Starting at the valve inhibits the bead from falling into the drop centre when finishing mounting, making the job more difficult. Ending at the valve eliminates this issue. This is even more of an issue on t ubeless tyres due to the larger sealing head of a tubeless valve.

6. While keeping hold of the valve, push the valve into the rim and pull back to unseat the tube from under the bead in the valve area.


7. Check around the rim and tyre to make sure the tube is not pinched between the bead and the rim. If the tube is pinched, work the tyre with your fingers to dislodge the pinched tube or remount more carefully.

Demounting: Entirely deflate the tube and push the valve inside the tyre, then work the beads loose from the rim flanges all the way around the rim by inching the bead area into the drop centre of the rim. Introduce two plastic tire levers under one bead of the tyre, approximately 10 centimetres away from the valve (on both sides of the valve). Prise the levers at the same time to pass the bead over the rim flange. Finish the operation by hand.

Note: Do not slide the tyre lever around the rim and the tyre to dismount the tyre. This could cause damage to the bead of the tyre.



But then, what do Michelin, probably the biggest tyre manufacturers in the world, know about it?

One final tip I would give, is don't try "pushing" the bead with your thumb. Instead "pull" it over with your fingers from the other side, using your thumbs against the other rim as a fulcrum.

BlackPanther
Posts: 196
Joined: 3 Jan 2012, 11:24am
Location: Doncaster

Re: Tip - fitting Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tyres

Postby BlackPanther » 20 Oct 2012, 3:59pm

One thing that hasn't been mentioned.....different rims. I can remove M+s from my Trice 20" rims relatively easy. The same size rims on the Optima Baron (velocity rims) are absolutely impossible to do at the roadside without snapping levers, and resorting to a screwdriver.
The photobucket images don't work !!!

PT1029
Posts: 581
Joined: 16 Apr 2012, 9:20pm

Re: Tip - fitting Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tyres

Postby PT1029 » 20 Oct 2012, 6:11pm

The problems described in fitting I too have - the tyre keeps popping off the rim as the beads are further apart then the rim width (that tick puncture lining keeps them wide). I've found once on, the tyre takes up the "normal"profile when inflated (so it gets used to the beads being 1 rim wide). When you later have to refit the tyre (unlikely puncture/spoke replacement etc), the tyre beads are closer together, so popping off when fitting tends not to happen/be much reduced.
Fitting the 1st time however, a toe strap to hold the start point on is helpful. Not sure what cyclists brought up on SPDs do!

Bikefayre
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Joined: 1 Dec 2014, 3:36pm

Re: Tip - fitting Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tyres

Postby Bikefayre » 29 Dec 2014, 3:12pm

Schwalbe Plus tyres are extremely easy to fit. The thing is you have to fit them wrong to get them on, will explain-Now normally both sides of the tyres will be locked at the valve to fit a normal tyre whereas instead of starting at the valve Plus tyres no matter the make need to be fitted with the valve at the top not the bottom. Using your body weight after inserting a slightly inflated tube push both beads hard into the well of the rim and work towards the valve. The trick is to use Gorilla Grips vehicle maintenance gloves and Var tyre levers. Once at the top push the valve up and slide the tyre over. To make life easier use a tube slightly bigger for easier fitment as it along with Schwalbe tyre soap makes the tyre fit perfectly! Try fitting a Ralston tyre onto any steel or alloy mountain bike rims and you will find Plus tyres a doddle!!! Try fitting one to a Westwood rim, it's a lot harder than a normal Endrick rim yet never moves in this rim. Have found the 35 tyres are the same size as modern 28s so a 25 is no problem. Still running fine over three years later!

Binkyboy
Posts: 77
Joined: 29 Oct 2010, 5:05pm

Re: Tip - fitting Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tyres

Postby Binkyboy » 19 Dec 2015, 7:48pm

Many people ignore the need to always finish at the valve.
By doing this, the tyre can sit down into the well opposite the valve and thus allow the tyre to move up towards the valve and allow the tyre over the side of the rim enough to get it on.
Once in the rim, reposition it concentrically to avoid any bump as the wheel rotates.

See Michelin's instructions on http://bike.michelin.co.uk/advice/how-t ... inner-tube
Note the last line of the pictures section: - “Finish fitting at the valve.”

For those who say "It doesn't make any difference" I say, if it makes no difference, why not try it? After all, if "it makes no difference" it can't be worse, and may even work!

I have seen 4 people trying to put a tyre on, got fed up waiting for them to do it, pushed them out of the way and flipped it on quite easily by doing it this way.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Tip - fitting Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tyres

Postby Brucey » 19 Dec 2015, 9:17pm

FWIW in general terms I agree in that starting and finishing at the valve allows a tiny bit more slack to be generated and this can make all the difference to being able to fit or remove a tyre that is tight on the rim or is fitted to a rim that has a shallow well.

M+ tyres do have their special problems and some means of holding the tyre so that the main part of it stays in the rim well is certainly handy in the early stages. However, once the tyre is 3/4 of the way on, provided the tube is rounded out, there should be enough tension in the beads to hold it in place as the final part of the bead is popped over.

There is an issue with finishing at the valve, which is that the valve body needs to be pushed up into the tyre just before the final section of bead is popped into position; if this is not done, the valve/tube can be pinched by the tyre.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Eyebrox
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Location: Ayrshire

Re: Tip - fitting Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tyres

Postby Eyebrox » 19 Dec 2015, 9:27pm

robgul wrote:The other trick with these (excellent) tyres is (as well as the slight inflation of the tube ... I thought that was standard practice) is to use a toeclip strap tightened around the tyre/rim once the tyre starts to go on to stop it "running round" while you grapple with the 3 handed process to get the rest of the tyre bead over the rim

Rob


These tyres once came with a reusable heavy duty zip tie to carry out the above procedure. I held on to this for years but never had an opportunity to use it - no punctures ever! I sold the bike with the Marathons still fitted.

Binkyboy
Posts: 77
Joined: 29 Oct 2010, 5:05pm

Re: Tip - fitting Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tyres

Postby Binkyboy » 20 Dec 2015, 4:01pm

All tyres are much easier to fit if you do it the correct way,
ALWAYS FINISH AT THE VALVE.
By doing that, the tyre can drop down into the well opposite the valve, and thus allow a bit more room to get it over the last bit. If you don't finish at the valve, the valve body stops the tyre dropping down into the well.
When you reach the last bit at the valve, go back to the other side of the wheel and squeeze the tyre into the well, allowing it to move a bit.
One tip I do pass on is not to push the tyre over the rim, but to pull it over, allowing the tyre to slip down your fingers as it does so.

Michelin say as such on their instruction page for fitting a tube. http://bike.michelin.co.uk/advice/how-t ... inner-tube
Note particularly the last line next to the bottom picture "Finish fitting at the valve."

I have waited whilst 4 people tried to fit a tight tyre until my patience ran out and took it from them, popping it on relatively easily by doing the above.
Some say "It doesn't make any difference" to which I simply say "If it makes no difference, it can't be any worse, so why not try it?"

No, I don't have strong fingers, my 67yrs old fingers are a bit arthritic these days.

MikeF
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Re: Tip - fitting Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tyres

Postby MikeF » 20 Dec 2015, 11:36pm

Brucey wrote:
There is an issue with finishing at the valve, which is that the valve body needs to be pushed up into the tyre just before the final section of bead is popped into position; if this is not done, the valve/tube can be pinched by the tyre.

cheers
FWIW I was always taught start/ finish opposite the valve, but that was mainly with car/M/C tyres of which I've fitted hundreds in the "distant" past and all without fancy modern aids that are used now. But I was also taught that with bicycle tyres, and thats the way I've always done it. Pinching a tube at the valve is avoided by doing it this way in spite of what Michelin advises. Also if you push the valve and inner tube up into the tyre, the tyre beads can sit in the well, so there shouldn't be a difference either way - except possibly for narrow rims, but M+ aren't made in small sizes. I'll "experiment" next time I put a tyre on at home. :wink:

I've never used Marathon plus tyres - weight and antics needed to fit them being two reasons. Easy fitting tyres are a plus, but rims play a part in fitment as well.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

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RickH
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Re: Tip - fitting Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tyres

Postby RickH » 21 Dec 2015, 5:42pm

MikeF wrote:... but M+ aren't made in small sizes.

Assuming you mean width, Schwalbe list M+ down to 25mm in 700C (35mm seems to be the smallest in other rim sizes, list here).

My compromise these days - I always used to start/finish opposite the valve - is to start/finish near the valve so I can get both beads of the tyre round the valve, making sure there is no pinching of the tube, but can still have most of the bead in the well of the rim to ease things if it is one of those harder to fit tyres.

Rick.

MikeF
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Re: Tip - fitting Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tyres

Postby MikeF » 22 Dec 2015, 12:19am

RickH wrote:
MikeF wrote:... but M+ aren't made in small sizes.

Assuming you mean width, Schwalbe list M+ down to 25mm in 700C (35mm seems to be the smallest in other rim sizes, list here).

Thanks. I stand corrected and I note Rosebikes sell them. Schwalbe seem to chop and change their line of tyres and website frequently. Doesn't appear there are folding Marathon Racers now for example, and why do they produce such a large range? Marketing Hype?
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Tip - fitting Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tyres

Postby Brucey » 22 Dec 2015, 12:29am

MikeF wrote:..... I stand corrected and I note Rosebikes sell them. Schwalbe seem to chop and change their line of tyres and website frequently. Doesn't appear there are folding Marathon Racers now for example, and why do they produce such a large range? Marketing Hype?....


Why so many? -because they can.... Although the moulds for individual tyres are expensive, it is relatively easy to create a huge range of tyres with just a few permutations of the various tyre components. Suppose that you have

- three carcass weights
- six carcass widths
- two different types of puncture protection
- two different bead types
- two different tread patterns per tyre type

then you are already up to 144 different tyres and that is before you start changing the rim size....

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~