Lightweight headset spanners

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Brucey
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Re: Lightweight headset spanners

Postby Brucey » 4 May 2019, 9:35am

there's always some movement of the adjusting race (because of the clearance in the threads) which needs to be allowed for when adjusting the headset regardless of the tools used. Whether the adjusting race spins wholesale as the locknut is tightened depends if you have a tabbed washer or not.

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Sweep
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Re: Lightweight headset spanners

Postby Sweep » 4 May 2019, 9:40am

Brucey wrote:there's always some movement of the adjusting race (because of the clearance in the threads) which needs to be allowed for when adjusting the headset regardless of the tools used. Whether the adjusting race spins wholesale as the locknut is tightened depends if you have a tabbed washer or not.

cheers


Thanks brucey - will carry another spanner then - probably this :


https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/x-t ... gLJKvD_BwE

which I recently acquired hoping it would be more compact than my Park tools 32/36 spanner but found that it's too thick - if you use it to hold the bearing cup as you tighten the locknut it becomes a permanent part of the bike :(
Sweep

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gaz
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Re: Lightweight headset spanners

Postby gaz » 4 May 2019, 9:41am

Firstly whilst I own a CoolTool I do not have such an adapter. Hence I have neither personal expericence of it's use nor knowledge of how well it will work, particulary without the CoolTool itself.

Secondly whilst a tabbed washer should theoretically stop the locknut from tightening the cone IME it doesn't. I would view a single headset spanner as sufficient for temporary roadside adjustments. You can't beat workshop tools.
Hand wash only. Do not iron.

slowster
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Re: Lightweight headset spanners

Postby slowster » 4 May 2019, 9:47am

Sweep wrote:Do folks think I need to carry another spanner to tighten the locknut?

From my home fumblings I have the idea that tightening the locknut can further tighten the bearing cup if you don't secure it.

If your bike has cantilever (or centre pull) brakes with a cable hanger between the nut and lock nut, you can prevent over tightening of the headset when you tighten the lock nut by gripping the cable hanger to stop it being rotated by the lock nut being tightened against it (something which I find I need to do anyway to keep cable hanger properly aligned, even though I think it probably has a tab on it like a keyed washer).

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Sweep
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Re: Lightweight headset spanners

Postby Sweep » 4 May 2019, 9:53am

slowster wrote:
Sweep wrote:Do folks think I need to carry another spanner to tighten the locknut?

From my home fumblings I have the idea that tightening the locknut can further tighten the bearing cup if you don't secure it.

If your bike has cantilever (or centre pull) brakes with a cable hanger between the nut and lock nut, you can prevent over tightening of the headset when you tighten the lock nut by gripping the cable hanger to stop it being rotated by the lock nut being tightened against it (something which I find I need to do anyway to keep cable hanger properly aligned, even though I think it probably has a tab on it like a keyed washer).

Thanks for this (or does brucey have a comment?) - I have three bikes which although now converted to V brakes still have that hanger fitted - I did once try to remove one as it severely restricts access to the bearing cup hexnut, but unless I am mad found that I had to retain it so that the headset assembly secured properly.
Sweep

nsew
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Re: Lightweight headset spanners

Postby nsew » 4 May 2019, 10:03am

Sweep wrote:
slowster wrote:
Sweep wrote:Do folks think I need to carry another spanner to tighten the locknut?

From my home fumblings I have the idea that tightening the locknut can further tighten the bearing cup if you don't secure it.

If your bike has cantilever (or centre pull) brakes with a cable hanger between the nut and lock nut, you can prevent over tightening of the headset when you tighten the lock nut by gripping the cable hanger to stop it being rotated by the lock nut being tightened against it (something which I find I need to do anyway to keep cable hanger properly aligned, even though I think it probably has a tab on it like a keyed washer).

Thanks for this (or does brucey have a comment?) - I have three bikes which although now converted to V brakes still have that hanger fitted - I did once try to remove one as it severely restricts access to the bearing cup hexnut, but unless I am mad found that I had to retain it so that the headset assembly secured properly.


A simple spacer will suffice. The Cool Tool adaptor is not required as a 5mm or 8mm Allen key slots in there. Condor used to produce a shortened headset / pedal (32/15) spanner. It was heavyish though.

Brucey
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Re: Lightweight headset spanners

Postby Brucey » 4 May 2019, 10:33am

FWIW it all depends on how you view the tool being carried;

a) good enough to do a permanent repair or
b) good enough to get you to home/a bike shop (or other place of many tools)

If you have a good tabbed washer (or hanger or w.h.y.) and a single spanner then a) applies. Even with a single spanner and no tabbed washer, I'd expect b) to apply.

The locknut doesn't need to be super-tight to endure a day's ride; BITD one of my chums had a very flaky training bike and he rode for months with a loose headset; once every five miles or so he tightened the adjusting race and then the locknut by hand (whilst still on the move) and carried on. Eventually the threads on the steerer wore away and it was 'game over' but it took quite a long time for this to happen. BTW It was obvious that this would cause a big problem sooner or later but it wasn't obvious that the bike wouldn't fail catastrophically in one of several other ways before this was likely.

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Sweep
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Re: Lightweight headset spanners

Postby Sweep » 4 May 2019, 10:50am

nsew wrote:A simple spacer will suffice.


I had thought of replacing it - forgive my ignorance but are all 1 inch threaded spacers the same depth?

nsew wrote:The Cool Tool adaptor is not required as a 5mm or 8mm Allen key slots in there


Sorry - being really thick I suspect but slots into what?

nsew wrote: Condor used to produce a shortened headset / pedal (32/15) spanner


Park did a 32/15 and 36/15 as well.

In my very early days of cycling when I used to sometimes wander into the wonderland that was bike shops I sometimes used to buy tools without quite knowing what they were.

Unfortuantely I bought the Park 15/36 which I have never had any use for so it sits in my toolbox forever unused.

It is shortened and has two holes in it - I think the idea was that you fastened it under a water bottle.

If anyone has the Park 15/32 in decent condition and wants to do a swap, by all means let me know.
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drossall
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Re: Lightweight headset spanners

Postby drossall » 4 May 2019, 11:04am

I can't find a source of the proper old 1" headset spacers that we used to get. They're all now the aheadset type, which starts at 1mm as a "thin" one. It's come up from time to time when I've wanted a spacer. You used to get some that did little more than help two nuts to move against each other, and were paper thin or less.

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Sweep
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Re: Lightweight headset spanners

Postby Sweep » 4 May 2019, 11:12am

drossall wrote:I can't find a source of the proper old 1" headset spacers that we used to get. They're all now the aheadset type, which starts at 1mm as a "thin" one. It's come up from time to time when I've wanted a spacer. You used to get some that did little more than help two nuts to move against each other, and were paper thin or less.


Just done a very quick google.

Found these:

https://www.evanscycles.com/m-part-spli ... 3-EV173707

though one reviewer says they are slightly mis-sized and rattle.

Maybe due to the splines? - a touted weight saving feature?!

The bikes I'd potentially be using these on I wouldn't be obsessing about weight.
Sweep

Brucey
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Re: Lightweight headset spanners

Postby Brucey » 4 May 2019, 11:13am

A long while ago I got cheesed off with not having enough spacers to hand; at about that time I happened to dismantle some old HDDs and noticed that the discs were held apart using spacers that looked uncannily like 1" headset spacers. I soon had about three dozen of them. Sadly they turned out to have a 25mm bore but half an hour in front of a lathe fixed that so now I have enough 1" spacers to last a lifetime....

One of the many fittings you can buy fairly easily is a lamp bracket that fits between the locknut and adjusting race. This (shortened a bit if necessary) can be used in place of a tabbed washer and allows a single spanner to provide a permanent adjustment.
This one
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/lighting-spares/busch-muller-light-bracket-to-fit-headset-222mm1-inch-steerer-tube-in-chrome/
also has tab on it.

cheers
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Sweep
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Re: Lightweight headset spanners

Postby Sweep » 4 May 2019, 11:18am

Also found this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-INCH-ALLOY ... VeECrzoVDg

maybe those folks could take on MickF's spanner idea.

Still plenty of 1 inch headset bikes around - especially in the trendier bits of London.
Sweep

slowster
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Re: Lightweight headset spanners

Postby slowster » 4 May 2019, 11:30am

Sweep wrote:I have three bikes which although now converted to V brakes still have that hanger fitted - I did once try to remove one as it severely restricts access to the bearing cup hexnut, but unless I am mad found that I had to retain it so that the headset assembly secured properly.

It sounds like the one you tried to remove is the same design as on my bike, which uses relatively thin metal and a lip which curves down over the adjusting nut e.g. like this one, presumably increasing the rigidity and strength of the hanger, but at the annoying penalty of restricting access as you say to the adjusting nut.

I cannot imagine why you would need to retain it having switched to V brakes, but you can buy better quality cable hangers without that lip, e.g. shallow ones like this one and deeper ones like this one. A deeper one is likely to be the better choice if you have aero levers with cable underneath the bar tape, especially if your stem is relatively low/short, because the cable will likely need a much tighter radius bend with a shallow hanger.

Edit - If you do want to change the hanger, you should probably first check your existing hanger and the steerer for compatibility with any new hanger. The first link above shows a hanger designed for a steerer with the rear facing part of the thread filed flat, the other links show hangers designed for steerers with a notch filed in the thread.

My own bike has a steerer with no notched keyway or flat surface, and the hole in the hanger is completely round, which is annoying as I had planned to replace it with an old shallow one with a notch which I had spare, specifically to address that problem of the lip covering the adjusting nut.

nsew
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Re: Lightweight headset spanners

Postby nsew » 4 May 2019, 11:53am

Sweep wrote:
nsew wrote:A simple spacer will suffice.


I had thought of replacing it - forgive my ignorance but are all 1 inch threaded spacers the same depth?

They varied the last time I picked up some. 10, 5, 2mm etc. Measure up your hanger, you can’t be on the low side but can afford 1 or 2mm on the high side.

nsew wrote:The Cool Tool adaptor is not required as a 5mm or 8mm Allen key slots in there


Sorry - being really thick I suspect but slots into what?

Into the hooked part on the CT 32mm head. That’s all the full CT did anyway. As Brucey says, it’s only a seviceable requirement to get you to two workshop spanners.

nsew wrote: Condor used to produce a shortened headset / pedal (32/15) spanner


Park did a 32/15 and 36/15 as well.

Workshop size though. The Condor is max 6”

In my very early days of cycling when I used to sometimes wander into the wonderland that was bike shops I sometimes used to buy tools without quite knowing what they were.

Unfortuantely I bought the Park 15/36 which I have never had any use for so it sits in my toolbox forever unused.

It is shortened and has two holes in it - I think the idea was that you fastened it under a water bottle.

If anyone has the Park 15/32 in decent condition and wants to do a swap, by all means let me know.


I’m sure Park 32/15 is available. The format is messed up in this reply - too lazy to change it.

slowster
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Re: Lightweight headset spanners

Postby slowster » 4 May 2019, 12:16pm

nsew wrote:
Sweep wrote:
nsew wrote:The Cool Tool adaptor is not required as a 5mm or 8mm Allen key slots in there

Sorry - being really thick I suspect but slots into what?

Into the hooked part on the CT 32mm head. That’s all the full CT did anyway.

That still doesn't make any sense to me. You can certainly use the Headset Adapter without the Cool Tool itself, but you would need something to take the place of the Cool Tool's adjustable spanner, the jaws of which grip the Adapter by a short piece of metal with a 90 degree bend in it to stop the jaws sliding off (which I presume is the 'hooked part' to which you refer, but it would not accept an allen key as a substitute for the adjustable spanner).