Modernising old frame

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Secret Sam
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Joined: 5 Feb 2008, 2:58pm

Modernising old frame

Postby Secret Sam » 7 Oct 2009, 11:18am

Am considering getting my old 531 resprayed, and modernised at the same time, ie new braze ons, etc. Thoughts I was having were:
-Gear cable guides: current bike has old-style braze on gear levers: are there guides that screw on to these or am I dreaming?
-Allen key brakes: most caliper brakes these days seem to be allen key; the one fly in the ointment here is that the brakes would need a drop of 57-60mm by my reckoning (have cheap dual-pivot long reach jobs on there at the moment, brake blocks are at the top of the slots)
-Second bottle boss: not essential, but if I'm tidying up the frame...
-Carrier bosses: on seat stays, possibly plus additional eyes on the drop outs

Any comments and advice on the above list would be welcome - does it sound reasonable and have I missed anything? (wouldn't mind reducing the list as those braze-ons etc above will cost as much as the respray (plus I'll need a new headset!))
My name...isn't really Sam

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CREPELLO
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Re: Modernising old frame

Postby CREPELLO » 7 Oct 2009, 11:45am

Secret Sam wrote:-Gear cable guides: current bike has old-style braze on gear levers: are there guides that screw on to these or am I dreaming?


Are the braze on gear lever lugs not the same for older bikes and newer ones too? So for cable guides, read stops, which are readily available. Sorry, perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Does the bike have all the other relevant cable guides?

For use with 700c wheels any good frame builder will be able to correct the bridges for normal drop brakes. At least that's what Trevor Jarvis told me; simple on the rear, but I'm not sure how it's done up front, but he assured me there was no problem.

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cycleruk
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Re: Modernising old frame

Postby cycleruk » 7 Oct 2009, 12:17pm

These fit to existing down tube brazeons:-
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/productde ... SNAGRSZ250

If you go to STI/Ergos then the cables tend to rub on the head tube.
You can have some small rings fitted at the head tube to take the cable outers and stops the rubbing.
Or you can have threaded cable stops brazed on the head tube to take adjusters.
(as on this frame:- http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/popup ... php?pID=45 )
(Personally I would keep the down tube stops and have the small rings fitted as you have the choice of returning to downtube shifters.)

It should be easy enough to have all the other bits fitted including the rear brake bridge modification.
The front forks though may be a problem. ???

Modern dual pivot caliper brakes are available in ~ 58mm size and this size will allow mudguards depending on how big your tire size is.
You'll never know if you don't try it.

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Secret Sam
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Re: Modernising old frame

Postby Secret Sam » 7 Oct 2009, 1:35pm

OK, thanks - sounds like down tube stops are the solution there - money saved!!! The front brake was marginal for the current 57mm+ drop brakes, so should be able to fit a long drop modern brake there - but at the back it's probably more like 60mm drop (the frame was built in the late 80s, so was set up for either 27" or 700c wheels - with plenty of clearance (I run 700x28s with full guards, no problem with clearance).

I guess I could get a new rear bridge - it's only about £15ish - may consider leaving that one up to Mercian/Argos/whoever does the respray

I live in Bucks - anyone got a recommendation for the company to do the renovation? My LBS said they send them to Argos, which suits me as I have family in Bristol anyway so pick up isn't an issue
My name...isn't really Sam

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MikewsMITH2
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Re: Modernising old frame

Postby MikewsMITH2 » 8 Oct 2009, 8:50am

THese brakes will do the rick and are excellent. I have them on my old Raleigh
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=79&src=froogle
S.O.S - Save Our Steel!
1971 Raleigh Mercury
2010 Condor Fratello
1980 Peugeot Tandem
1989 MBK Aventure MTB
195? Viking Severn Valley
1951 Raleigh Lenton Sports
See them here http://tinyurl.com/Mikewsmiths-Bikes

cycle_tourer
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Joined: 20 Jun 2007, 5:42pm

Re: Modernising old frame

Postby cycle_tourer » 8 Oct 2009, 2:27pm

I also need some advice about modernising an old frame.

I have an old Bob Jackson frame i bought off someone on this forum. It was designed for use with 27" wheels, but has already had the rear triangle widened to take a more modern set up. I bought a new (second hand) campag, mostly centaur, group set for it but have hit some problems. The main one being the rear brake reach (front one appears fine). I could put a different brake like the ones suggested (but they are not as nice as the campag ones i have) or i guess i could scour the interweb for vintage campag ones with a greater drop?

Or I could pay to have the rear brake bridge lowered? But that would mean a respray. The frame doesn't really need a respray desperately, it's tired but not that bad. If I was having this done I could also get some bosses(?) put on the down tube for the cable guiding, as at the moment it has nothing so i am using something designed by problem solvers, which will work, but is a bit ugly.

Or I could put the old 10 speed components on, get some down tube shifters on it and leave it at that and use the group set for something else?

Any suggestions? At what point is it best to abandon modernising the frame?

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meic
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Re: Modernising old frame

Postby meic » 8 Oct 2009, 4:11pm

When I was investigating this I came across a sort of adaptor which you put on the rear bridge and it acts as another bridge lower down for you to mount your calipers on.
I decided it was better to just fit a long reach caliper on to the bridge as it would look and work better than a good caliper on a less rigid adaptor.

The Alhongas are cheap and effective but tend to develop some rust and corrosion over a few years.
Yma o Hyd

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Secret Sam
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Re: Modernising old frame

Postby Secret Sam » 12 Oct 2009, 9:32am

MikewsMITH2 wrote:THese brakes will do the rick and are excellent. I have them on my old Raleigh
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=79&src=froogle


Ah - nut fitting - already have something similar on my frame (unbranded jobbies from Condor)

Have just fitted a new rear mech and noticed that following a rear mech in spokes episode a while back, the rear gear hanger is bent :evil:

Am beginning to wonder if a new frame might not be a more cost effective solution - would anyone buy my old steelie???!!?!?!?!?!
My name...isn't really Sam

PW
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Re: Modernising old frame

Postby PW » 12 Oct 2009, 6:39pm

If it's 531 the gear hangar can probably be straightened, most shops used to carry a tool for the purpose. Failing that if it's being resprayed anyway you could have the dropout replaced, once the framebuilder fires his torch up these jobs don't cost a deal, the main factor in the price is the paint job. Whilst we're here, does it need the rear end cold setting for a modern hub?
If at first you don't succeed - cheat!!

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MikewsMITH2
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Re: Modernising old frame

Postby MikewsMITH2 » 12 Oct 2009, 7:29pm

The jaws of a large adjustable spanner over the gear hanger, will straighten it as required. I have done this several times successfully without damage on a Steel frame. The metal is quite malleable and what have you got to lose? If you are planning to go to a framebuilder or scrap the frame = nothing to lose. The "professional" tools aren't much different - just a large lever. best to do in one movement if possible as lots of small movements are more likely to work harden or fatigue the frame - unlikely with steel. You can user a rulr to determine if it is aligned see http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=39 and you will get the idea.
S.O.S - Save Our Steel!
1971 Raleigh Mercury
2010 Condor Fratello
1980 Peugeot Tandem
1989 MBK Aventure MTB
195? Viking Severn Valley
1951 Raleigh Lenton Sports
See them here http://tinyurl.com/Mikewsmiths-Bikes

Oak Hill Cyclists
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Joined: 1 Oct 2009, 10:53pm
Location: Austin, Texas USA

Re: Modernising old frame

Postby Oak Hill Cyclists » 12 Oct 2009, 11:49pm

Thinking of heated spread of rear triangle from 140mm to 160mm on our tandem with a respray so that we'll have a better choice of state-of-the-art cassette hubs and disk drag brake. Anyone here still struggling with old 140mm freewheel hubs?
The older I get, the better I was.

PW
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Location: N. Derbys.

Re: Modernising old frame

Postby PW » 13 Oct 2009, 5:17pm

I've got 145mm cassette hubs on my solo tourer :wink: XT Tandem 40H for touring and a re-axled XT mountain hub for a 36H commuting wheel. SJS do a 48h rear I think, not sure if there's a longer version.
If at first you don't succeed - cheat!!

Bill D
Posts: 131
Joined: 6 Nov 2008, 5:41am
Location: sunny mid Wales

Re: Modernising old frame

Postby Bill D » 14 Oct 2009, 7:42am

Secret Sam wrote:Am considering getting my old 531 resprayed, and modernised at the same time, ie new braze ons, etc. Thoughts I was having were:
-Gear cable guides: current bike has old-style braze on gear levers: are there guides that screw on to these or am I dreaming?
-Allen key brakes: most caliper brakes these days seem to be allen key; the one fly in the ointment here is that the brakes would need a drop of 57-60mm by my reckoning (have cheap dual-pivot long reach jobs on there at the moment, brake blocks are at the top of the slots)
-Second bottle boss: not essential, but if I'm tidying up the frame...
-Carrier bosses: on seat stays, possibly plus additional eyes on the drop outs

Any comments and advice on the above list would be welcome - does it sound reasonable and have I missed anything? (wouldn't mind reducing the list as those braze-ons etc above will cost as much as the respray (plus I'll need a new headset!))


From the answers given so far it is beginning to sound as if the project will cost you more than buying a comparable new bike.