Mercian or Bob Jackson or some titanium bling?

[RC]

I have a terrible dilemma
To celebrate a new job I have been given permission by the boss (home boss not work boss ) to buy a new bike. I want an Audax bike as I have a tourer at the moment and although it has served me well for the past ten years it is very ponderous (especially up hills), and to be honest I have never been touring on it. I really like the look and ride of lugged steel bikes but to be honest my knowledge of what makes a good audax frame is limited so please help...

What frame material is best? I have a preference for steel (especially with lugs), but then what type of steel? Would I notice the difference between 631 and 725, 853 etc etc.

Which shop? I would prefer to buy something produced in the UK if possible. I live half way between these two builders (see title) in north Derbyshire).

The bike would be used, in that my main cycling is commuting. Should I be looking for something a little less posh? It would be stored inside at both ends of my journey and my feeling is that bikes are meant to be ridden and not stored for sunny day use only..

Or is steel old hat and I should go for a 21st century far eastern titanium uber bike....
All opinions welcome!
Rob

[hubgearfreak]

go and visit both those frame builders, and dave yates is well respected and not too far from you either. have a chat with all three, ask questions, inspect their products. you'll be investing a 1000 pounds or more on the bike, that'll last you decades, so spend some time researching.

obviously lugged steel makes a far superior bicycle, but that's a can of worms. here's a link to read, or search this very forum.

http://www.rivbike.com/article/bicycle_ ... _materials

[glueman]

Weight per £, off the peg aluminium road bikes can't be beaten. Titanium bicyles are quite good value as a packaged bundle. Custom steel bikes are expensive complete but better value as DIY builds but are not light unless you go for the 953 end of the range and kit it out with Record/Dura Ace components. If you get change from 3 grand you'll have done well.

If you go for a self-build and are happy with a light but not ultralight steel frame prices begin around £350 for a Thorn Audax Mk III or around £550 for a lugged Reynolds 653 from an old school British builder. Depending on how canny you are with your component buys and how much you're prepared to compromise on weight you could conceivably put a complete machine together for £600-900.

The most immediate way to make a bike feel fast is to put light tyres and narrow rims on the wheels. Then lose surplus baggage and carry a milti-tool and spare tube in a saddle pouch. That will instantly convert your baseline steel model into a titanium/carbon confection with a saddlebag. Or you could, like me, not worry too much about weight and ride whatever a lugged steel bike with a Brooks and a Carradice and everything else you normally carry weighs in at.

[pq]

Need more info. How much do you want to spend? Would you benefit from having something made to measure?

My frame material of choice for this sort of thing has been Ti for a long time now. It's light, durable, doesn't rust, and in the right hands makes a very comfortable frame. But the bling US made frames are much nicer to ride than far eastern - and I have owned several of each. Of course the US made stuff is much much more expensive.

These days, 953 is real competition for US Ti bling and you have the option of going to a British builder and getting exactly what you want. With a big enough budget, and if I was buying now, I think that's what I'd go for.

If you can't run to that sort of thing, I'd go for the best/lightest steel you can afford if you want custom, or far east Ti (A Van Nicholas or similar) if not.

Spend your money on frame and wheels. These days even cheap groupsets work pretty well, so if you need to make savings, that's where you should do it.

My view on the ideal audax bike is that it shouldn't be much different to a race bike - just a bit more clearance and a wider range of gears. Others on here disagree, but I know how much I enjoy riding a fast light bike for a long day in the saddle.

[stevew]

Been looking at similar bikes myself, but not for me, for a friend. It's good fun looking at nice bikes even if you will not be able to afford one, there's no harm in dreaming !
I like steel and therefore rather like this http://www.enigmabikes.com/index.php?_a ... oductId=14
Saw it at the bike show, it's even prettier an the flesh.
For me the clincher was "made in England"

But what about going right out on a limb and choosing one of these
http://www.bacchettabikes.com/recumbent ... ecs_24.htm
Only 1800 quid and lots more comfy and lots more fast !

[thirdcrank]

If you are travelling to Leeds, it would surely be worth your while to visit as many West Yorks framebuilders as you can. It's prpbably abpout 20 minutes by bike from Jackson's to Woodrupp's and a bit longer the other way as it's all uphill. http://www.woodrupcycles.com/

In Bradford there is Pennine Cycles AKA Whitaker and Mapplebeck's http://www.penninecycles.com/Home.htm. In Shipley (officially part of Bradford) there is Ellis Briggs http://customframebuilding.ellisbriggscycles.co.uk/ and a bit further afield in Keighley (also part of Bradford) tyere is Chris Marshall who used to build frmes for Johnny Mapp but now has his own place (no shop AFAIK)

[glueman]

I should have added if you are content to ride fixed you can save pounds of weight and cash. It might be worth looking at ways of shedding weight from your existing bike (lighter wheels you put on a new bike?) and trying a 200k audax before you commit. People ride audaxes on all manner of machinery, some of it far from light.

[RC]

Thanks for the views. I'm tall but a pretty standard 'shape' so would probably try and keep costs reasonable with an off the peg frame and adjusting the seatpost/stem to get the right fit. I also think I really want to keep to steel. I suppose that leads to the next question. Apart from variations in the weight of the frame (with which I'm not too concerned. Well I am a little bit if I'm honest) is there a real world difference between the quality steel tubing? As in would I notice a better ride with one one particular tube set or another, or is it a question of durability? I assume that it is quite possible to spend increasing amounts of money for smaller and smaller gains with regards frame materials. I aim to spend the bulk of my money on the frame and wheels (as suggested by pq) but don't want to use up my budget (~£1500) on something I won't notice, if that makes sense . Re. the thorn audax it looks like a great bike, but I would really prefer to spend my cash on something UK based to support the industry.
Cheers and thanks for the replies
Rob

[glueman]

The trick is to keep your frame and components within a similar quality and weight bracket and divide that into your maximum budget. Volume manufacturers specialise in haggling for bulk purchases which means it's possible to find sub 20 lb bikes (and sometimes well under that weight) for £1000 off the peg. To achieve a similar weight from a small steel builder would cost hugely more, if it were possible at all.

Cyclists used to consider any fully fitted touring bike of 28 lb and under as light. Knock 3 lbs of that weight for an audax/club machine. The difference between making an audaxer that weighs 25 lb and 20 lb could mean paying double your £1500 budget as well as compromising ultimate durability. Even in normal grades of steel you should be able to achieve a 25 lb bike within your budget. If that weight still troubles you I'd seriously consider going off the peg. There's no one answer, you pays your money...

So far as strength goes all steel frames are immensely strong to vertical loading and vulnerable to sideways knocks. Casual whacks are more easily resisted by thicker steel. All high tech steels and titanium frames have extremely thin walls to make them light. Some riders are unconcerned by the slings and arrows of cafe walls and the bike shed, others worry. If such things keep you awake, look at the tubing dimensions on the Reynolds and other sites.

[thirdcrank]

... I would really prefer to spend my cash on something UK based to support the industry. ...

I'm not too clear what you mean by UK based, but I think your choice is between something made in the UK and something that isn't. If it's made in the UK it will cost more because it will be made by people being paid UK wages and a lot of UK production is now made-to-order.

[hubgearfreak]

probably try and keep costs reasonable with an off the peg frame

I also think I really want to keep to steel.

I would really prefer to spend my cash on something UK based to support the industry.

there's 3 choices then, as far as i can see. but do you plump for 25mm, 28mm, or 32mm tyres?

http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/defau ... 6110b7fcf4

[PW]

If you're in Derbyshire nip over to Clowne and have a word with Chris in Edison Cycles. (Top of Cliff Hill next to the college)
*IF* you have the cash 953 is unbeatable for metal frames, if you haven't 853 is excellent. Excellent shop, knowledgable owner, top notch framebuilder, and we have a shed full.
(01246) 812878

[RC]

Thanks PW, my wife works in Clowne so a visit to Edison cycles might be just the thing. I'll give them a ring to see whats possible on my budget.
Cheers
Rob

[heron8888]

Unless you have a big budget, I would go for the off the peg, Bob Jackson Audax 631, it has all the mounts etc , just decide if you want classic quill stem or "a " head, they seem a lot better value than most, mine has been very good.

[Steve]

Before you see Bob Jacksons get thysen to Vernon Barker in Dronfield, he too has a good reputation. Our tandem is one of his (albeit second hand), & is very well made. He has a website [url]vernonbarkercycles.co.uk[/url] but it doesn't seem finished, he's probably too busy building frames.