Studded tyres?

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MacBludgeon
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Re: Studded tyres?

Postby MacBludgeon » 21 Dec 2009, 8:41pm

Interesting stuff and very sorry to hear of your mishap Ersakus, I hope you recover well. It's made my mind up for me though, I have the M Winter 700x40 on backorder. I was thinking two wheelsets or put them on one bike and then choose bike in morning for expected conditions. Now I'm going with the idea of fit and forget, even if I wore a set out each Winter it would still be worth it, but writeups would indicate I could expect 3 Winters per set, at my sort of mileage. I'm even considering a second set, maybe in 700x35, so that I have two bikes fitted for the cold months.
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philg
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Re: Studded tyres?

Postby philg » 21 Dec 2009, 9:10pm

Braved the elements today for the 14km commute in, on the MTB with Snow Studs and confirmed my opinions from last time - on snow and flat ice they are just the job. Good traction and, with care, the front stayed planted throughout.

Unsurprisingly, they struggle on roads where the motors have churned the snow up into ice ridges, and the ride home tonight was very slow going with the fresh snow (it was still falling) causing the back end to slide frequently, though the front still behaved itself.

Haven't decided whether I'm brave enough to do it again tomorrow - it may be 'fun' but it is very wearing on the brain and the forecast is for loads more overnight :?

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horizon
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Re: Studded tyres?

Postby horizon » 24 Dec 2009, 1:01am

Quick update on this. Studs are for ice, treads are for snow. Neither has an effect on the other. Schwalbe Marathon Winter is best for commuting when ice (not snow) is the worst possibility. But the Nokian 240 looks like the best tyre to get you there (to work, on the road) whatever the conditions. It's only a 1.9 but with 240 studs and deep treads (ice...plus snow...) I would buy it. The only web dealer appears to be Starbike. Any other suggestions and does anyone know of a UK Nokian dealer (especially one that does web sales)?

All ideas appreciated (otherwise it's Schwalbe Snow Studs for now from Wiggle).
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Kevin K
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Re: Studded tyres?

Postby Kevin K » 24 Dec 2009, 11:02am

My Marathon Winter tyres were okay in yesterday's snow, but I agree that a wider tyre with deeper tread would have been better.
However, for the typical mixed winter conditions here in East Kilbride (around 200m above Glasgow) the Marathon Winter's are an excellent compromise. That they are narrower than my normal 2" Marathon Supremes actually gives more clearance in snow.
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bikepacker
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Re: Studded tyres?

Postby bikepacker » 24 Dec 2009, 1:24pm

Fed up of being snow and iced in here upon a common, I got a pair of Marathon Winter tyres. Tried them out today for the first time and I think they are great. Did 20 miles on untreated roads even cycling past 4WDs stuck on an icy hill.
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drossall
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Re: Studded tyres?

Postby drossall » 24 Dec 2009, 5:40pm

horizon wrote:...does anyone know of a UK Nokian dealer (especially one that does web sales)?


Richardson's list Nokian, but no mention of Web sales. I found them because Wowbagger mentioned them - I've never even been there. I might have bought Nokians if I had found this shop in time, but never mind, the Marathon Winters should be fine for me.

mark a.
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Re: Studded tyres?

Postby mark a. » 24 Dec 2009, 5:54pm

Kevin K wrote:My Marathon Winter tyres were okay in yesterday's snow, but I agree that a wider tyre with deeper tread would have been better.


I was wondering about this. Rally cars use really narrow tyres in the winter races so they cut through the snow to grip the ground and ice underneath for grip. Would this apply to bikes too? Especially if they have studs on to grip the underlying road.

David Cox
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Re: Studded tyres?

Postby David Cox » 24 Dec 2009, 11:33pm

thanks for all the advice folks, frustrated by a week of turbo only "riding" I've fitted Schwalbe Snow Studs (rapid service from Chain Reaction in Xmas week). They are on a mountain bike and they are a great improvement for commuting although you still need to concentrate in frozen ruts. I used to plough on through snow quite cheerfully on a variety of tyres in the past including Michelin 27" touring BUT I'm older/wiser/more nervous now and came down hard on unexpected black ice last year. Inevitably buying and fitting snow tyres seems to have brought the thaw!

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Si
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Re: Studded tyres?

Postby Si » 25 Dec 2009, 12:36pm

Finally managed to use mine for the first time this winter today, being well enough to get out on the bike at last.

Another point that I have picked up - always remember to warn those around you that you have studs. A dobbin came out of a side road today, straight across the front of me. I braked and followed him for a bit - he did the usual of trying to sprint away only to run out of energy 50yds further on whereby I caught him easily. I passed him as the road became snowy/icy. He made the mistake of trying to stay with me - he was last seen sliding to a halt up the verge with a confused look on his face as I continued with no trouble.

A further problem with studded tyres - they might save you from potential injury on icy surfaces, but they can lead to much worse pain when SWMBO notices what they have done to the kitchen floor :oops:

As for riding in deep or powdery snow, I agree that they are not the best but then they have to represent a trade-off with being good on the road. Something like the panaracer Spike is idea for snow as the tread is deep and pointed so it sheds well. In the snow that I normally ride in, in low-land England, I don't think that extra width would help - better to have a narrower, more aggressive tyre that can bite down through the powder.

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ersakus
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Re: Studded tyres?

Postby ersakus » 25 Dec 2009, 1:00pm

Has anyone tried the studded tyres on muddy roads? Do they work on mud as well. Having fallen twice on muddy roads and broken bones, I wonder if I should keep my studded marathons on at all seasons!

gracoo2
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Re: Studded tyres?

Postby gracoo2 » 25 Dec 2009, 8:32pm

Schwalbe are very good but you really don't need so many studs and if you do want to make your own studded tyres, use sheet-metal screws. Pan head, instead of hex head, use old road slicks to protect the tubes on the inside. Choose an old pair of 26 inch big knobbies then choose screws which will emerge about 3 or 4mm. Drill starter holes through the centre of the selected knobs and screw in every couple of inches. The points will wear fast on uncovered tarmac but you'll be left with 2-3 mm studs, which is ideal and could last you several winters. They are excellent on sheet ice when braking. Nothing else comes close. People who don't know you are riding on studded tyres will be amazed.

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Re: Studded tyres?

Postby andrew_s » 26 Dec 2009, 12:05am

ersakus wrote:Has anyone tried the studded tyres on muddy roads? Do they work on mud as well. Having fallen twice on muddy roads and broken bones, I wonder if I should keep my studded marathons on at all seasons!

It's unlikely to work.
The studs need something to bite into that's hard enough to give grip, but not too hard - i.e. ice.
Mud is too soft for the studs to give any more grip than the rubber tread. The road surface under the mud will just push the studs down into the rubber of the tyre, like a clean road would.

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squeaker
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Re: Studded tyres?

Postby squeaker » 26 Dec 2009, 11:34am

ersakus wrote:Funny enough shcwalbe manual that came with the tyre suggests that the new tyre should be ridden on dry tarmac for 40miles before usage on ice. I wonder if this this first "dry" ride will cause stduts falling off.
from Peter White's FAQ (near bottom of page)
"Q: Why do Nokian tires have a tag stating that you should ride the tires on paved roads for 30 miles before using them on ice?

A: It's because Nokian is very sloppy in how they install the studs, and doesn't take the time to ensure that every stud is fully seated in the tire tread before shipping it. With some studs partly hanging out of the tire tread, if you ride them hard, the studs can easily fall out. Riding them "easy" is supposed to help seat the studs. Of course this as all just bovine excrement, and those half seated studs can still easily fall out.

But don't worry. Before we ship any studded tire, Nokian or Schwalbe, my staff carefully check every stud on every tire to be sure they are all correctly and fully seated in the tire tread. Any tire with studs that are not fully seated, or missing, are given to me and I, Peter Jon White, then seat or replace any missing studs personally. We'll ship no tire with missing or partially seated studs. That means you don't have to fool around riding slowly. Ignore the silly and misleading message from Nokian when you buy tires from me.

Guess the same applies to Schwalbe?
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Si
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Re: Studded tyres?

Postby Si » 28 Dec 2009, 4:02pm

ersakus wrote:Has anyone tried the studded tyres on muddy roads? Do they work on mud as well. Having fallen twice on muddy roads and broken bones, I wonder if I should keep my studded marathons on at all seasons!


The marathon studded tyres have MTB-like knobbly tread - this works much better in the mud and on dirt than a slick road tyre. Not as good as a proper MTB mud tyre but good enough.

But for what you want I'd just go for a tyre with more tread - an expo/MTB tyre, as leaving the studs on will just wear them down, cost you money to replace, and the studs themselves don't make much difference in the mud.

Also, if you don't do it already it might also be worth having a go at MTBing (perhaps with a proper instructor) and get some confidence for riding in mud. In my group of road riders it becomes amazingly obvious who also rides MTBs off road and who don't as soon as we meet some mud or gravel on the road.

gracoo2
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Re: Studded tyres?

Postby gracoo2 » 29 Jan 2010, 12:07pm

rualexander wrote:Yes studs certainly help with frost as well as real ice and snow.
Besides the Marathon Winter (seems to be an availability problem in this country, Dotbike
out of stock), there is also the Schwalbe Snow Stud from Wiggle
or the Nokian Hakkapeliitta from Starbike in Germany. Nokian do a few different models but that is the cheapest, more studs costs more.
They are slightly slower but not a big issue, they also make quite a nice noise!


In the latest issue of CTC Cycle (Winter Warmer) on p15 is an article about Snow Studs & Conti Spike Claws. 2,000 winter tyres sold by Bohle and those who waited til the last minute were disappointed. The Snow Studs are good but the metal bits don't protrude quite enough. The advantage is that with higher pressure, the studs don't hit the road at all! Not as effective on ice as my home-made spikers. So I got in touch with Chris Hearn at Bohle UK and gave him some feedback for Schwalbe R&D