Shimergo Advice Please?

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simonp
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 6:50pm

Shimergo Advice Please?

Postby simonp » 14 Jan 2010, 5:38pm

Hi all,

I've got a self-built Thorn Audax MK3 bike, currently set-up with the following: 105 shifters and rear mech, SRAM 9 sp chain, Ultegra 9sp rear cassette (12-27T), Tiagra front shifter and triple XT hollowtech chainset (48-28T).

The shifters are getting on a bit (I swapped them off an old Dawes Audax onto the new bike) and the shifting is far from smooth, and I could do with some lower gears, so I'm thinking it might be a good opportunity to try out a shimergo set-up. I also use a bar-bag, so the tidy cables would be a plus too.

Reading the other post and Chris Juden article, I'm thinking of the following:
Campag shifters with XT rear 9 sp cassette (11-32). Now it seems that I can either use 10sp shifters with Hubbub (4.34 pitch) or 11sp with no Hubbub (4.48 pitch); the former being closer to the 4.35mm pitch of standard 9sp shimano. Has anyone got experience of either option?
A few other questions which I'm not clear on:
Will I need an XT rear shifter?
What happens with the 2 extra 'shifts'?
Will I need a Campag triple front mech?

Many thanks to anyone who can offer some advice. Cheers, Simon

simonp
Posts: 46
Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 6:50pm

Re: Shimergo Advice Please?

Postby simonp » 14 Jan 2010, 5:43pm

Hi all,

Another question: Has anyone tried the 2009 or 2010 Athena / Chorus / Record Ultrashift 10 or 11 speed shifters - got any comments or preferences? I'm not sure which to get and the prices do seem to vary quite a bit. Apart from a slight weight saving is there a significant difference in longevity/ reliability or smoothness between the various shifters?
Cheers,
Simon

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robwa10
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Location: North Derbyshire/South Yorkshire

Re: Shimergo Advice Please?

Postby robwa10 » 14 Jan 2010, 7:27pm

Campag shifters with XT rear 9 sp cassette (11-32). Now it seems that I can either use 10sp shifters with Hubbub (4.34 pitch) or 11sp with no Hubbub (4.48 pitch); the former being closer to the 4.35mm pitch of standard 9sp shimano. Has anyone got experience of either option?
I currently use a Shimergo setup with 10spd shifters and use the Hubbub method. It works well and the only time I have any problems is when the chain gets excessively dirty. I'm thinking about ordering a Shiftmate but only because I have family in America.

A few other questions which I'm not clear on:
Will I need an XT rear shifter? You will need a mtb rear mech to cope with the bigger gears on the cassette, though whether it's an XT is up to you.
What happens with the 2 extra 'shifts'? I keep my extra one on the low end (11 teeth) and it's just there. If I click down to it the cable just slackens but I've set the limit screw on the mech so it doesn't.
Will I need a Campag triple front mech? Possibly, there is a previous thread on here concerning the springs in the mechs and the Shimano springs being too strong and causing the mech to slip. I'll try to find it and post a reply. I currently use a Shimano mtb mech that has a similar pull ratio to a Campag.
Just Rob please.

mercurykev
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Location: Musselburgh

Re: Shimergo Advice Please?

Postby mercurykev » 14 Jan 2010, 7:42pm

My Audax Mk3 has 10 speed erogs (Veloce pre-QS) running 9 speed shimano cassette, tiagra front mech and XT rear mech using hubbub cable routing - works a treat.

I have an other bike with 10 Speed Record QS Ergos and hubbub routing - the shifting from the Record shifters is a bit smoother than the Veloce but nothing ground breaking.

To answer your specific questions:

Will I need an XT rear shifter? Not specifically XT, but to run a 11-32 cassette, you'll need a long cage mountain bike rear mech - XT, LX, Deore will all work.

What happens with the 2 extra 'shifts'? Dead click at the end of the shifting range but depends on cable tension.

Will I need a Campag triple front mech? Not necessarily, I've used a Tiagra front mech with QS and pre-QS ergos and they have worked fine. I have heard that the newer ergos had difficulty coping with the spring tension of shimano front mechs though.

mercurykev
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Location: Musselburgh

Re: Shimergo Advice Please?

Postby mercurykev » 14 Jan 2010, 7:43pm

Beaten to it :D

simonp
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 6:50pm

Re: Shimergo Advice Please?

Postby simonp » 15 Jan 2010, 1:11pm

Many thanks for the replies so far, really helpful stuff.

I think the 10sp shifters with Hubbub could be the way to go then. Also, looks like the shifters will be cheaper than the 11's and only one spare click.
Cheers

steady eddy
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Re: Shimergo Advice Please?

Postby steady eddy » 15 Jan 2010, 3:20pm

Mercurykev makes the point that Campag ultrashifts may struggle with the spring tension in Tiagra front mechs. Comparing a Tiagra front mech with a campag mirage the spring tension appears about the same but the distance from the pivot point on the campag mech to the cable fixing point is approximately twice as much. If I remember my school boy physics that doubles the mechanical advantage and halves the effort the needed to operate the mechanism. The point made to me when I purchased the campag mech mech was that the innards of the ulrashift would wear faster if the shimano mech wasn't replaced as they were not made for the effort required.

The application of the physics above would perhaps explain why.

Cyclenut
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Re: Shimergo Advice Please?

Postby Cyclenut » 15 Jan 2010, 4:47pm

Apparently you can also expect phantom upshifts at the rear, if you combine the latest Campag "Ultrashift" 11-speed Ergopower controls with a Shimano rear mech - or even an older Campag rear mech.

Campag have softened the shifter detents and weakened the mech return springs for an easier shifting experience. Until a bit of crud gets on the cable, at which the mech will cease all the sooner to upshift at all! :roll:
Chris Juden (at home and not asleep)

simonp
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Re: Shimergo Advice Please?

Postby simonp » 15 Jan 2010, 7:18pm

I'll probably end up getting the Centaur 10sp ultrashift and trying to find a suitable triple Compag front mech. Thanks for the advice regarding the rear mtb cassette / mech.

steady eddy
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Re: Shimergo Advice Please?

Postby steady eddy » 18 Jan 2010, 9:36am

The centaur 10 speed work fine on Shimano 9 speed ( £139 with cables from Parker International)- with almost no adjustment mine have indexed perfectly with the hubub cable fix. Beware the fitting instructions are rubbish. I spent 10 minutes looking for the hole to thread the gear cable through having followed arrow B - shame it pointed to the wrong place. It is at the back of the leaver casing not the front! They also have "Yes" and "No" mixed up in one of the diagrams.

Front mechs are proving more of a problem. I couldn't get the mirage triple to work, the range didn't appear sufficient, so I have refitted the Tiagra. It isnt a particularly happy combination and needs more work with the adjustment and does seem to be a bit strong for the lever. I have measured the range on the mirage on the bench and it seems ok so with some further adjustment I will have anothere go. I am presently considering taking the lever off the mirage and fitting it to a Tagra mech to get the extra arm length to reduce the effect of the spring tension. Measurements so far suggest this is possible but if I get it wrong I have trashed two mechs to no avail.

johnmac
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Re: Shimergo Advice Please?

Postby johnmac » 18 Jan 2010, 9:58am

I'd get 9 speed Ergo's and a J-Tech Shiftmate - works for me!

simonp
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Re: Shimergo Advice Please?

Postby simonp » 18 Jan 2010, 7:51pm

Hi Eddy,
thanks for the heads-up on the Campag instructions-I'll look out for that!
Well, I've ordered the Centaur 10sp ultrashift levers and I've now got an XT rear cassette and mech together with a new, longer 9sp chain. I've also bought a Chorus triple 10sp front mech, so I'm sure I'll propbably enjoy the same challenge as you getting it to shift smoothly... I'll post something up here on the sucess or otherwise of the scheme! Good luck getting your's to work.
Cheers

By the way, I've found it quite confusing trying to work out what the differences are between quickshift, ultrashift, micro-adjust etc. Hopefully it'll work though!

simonp
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Re: Shimergo Advice Please?

Postby simonp » 29 Jan 2010, 10:52am

I've now converted my Audax to Shimergo and thought I'd post a few observations & comments in case they're of help to others:

1. Firstly, it Works!!!!! I've got Centaur 10sp Ultrashift levers, older style Deore LX rear mech with XT 11-32 cassette, Campag Chorus front triple mech and XT triple 48-28 chainset. I used the hubbub re-routing to index the rear and was amazed at how well it works, especially since the adjustment to the mech lever arm seems so slight.

2. The Campy instructions are the worst set of instructions I've ever seen and you may as well ignore them. The levers are also awkward to fit, due to very poor design. They have opted to use a Torx (6-star) bolt to attach the jubilee clip, rather than a simple allen bolt and the position of the bolt is extremely difficult to reach. I found I needed to completely detach the clip to get it on the bars, then refix the levers afterwards. You need to be quite forceful in rolling back the rubber hoods in order to access the bolts / cable routing etc. and there is always a worry about ripping them, particularly in having to pull them over the thumb buttons.

3. I initially bought an XT shadow rear mech but later swapped it to the older LX type because it didn't look like the hubbub would work on the newest style of mechs (although maybe somebody has done this sucessfully?).

4. The front mech was tricky to get right, but worked in the end. The spring tension in the Chorus mech seems to be ok for the levers. Some front mechs are labelled as Quickshift and I'm not sure if they would work the same; mine is a slightly older one. I think Campy state that there minimum tooth count for the front chainring is 30T, although it seems to be fine on 28T. I think it's just the overall capacity that matters.

So, all-in-all it's been a sucess. I had some help from JE James in Sheffield to fine tune the final indexing and they were surprised it worked too!

Cheers
Simon

kxx
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Re: Shimergo Advice Please?

Postby kxx » 13 Feb 2010, 9:10pm

My Centaur 10sp shifters work well with Ultegra RD. But they don't work with Ultegra Compact FD - the LH shifter shifts down. It seems that the spring in Ultegra FD too strong for shifter. Is the only way to make it work buy Campy FD? Will Centaur Triple FD work with compact cranks?

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cycleruk
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Re: Shimergo Advice Please?

Postby cycleruk » 13 Feb 2010, 9:42pm

simonp wrote:By the way, I've found it quite confusing trying to work out what the differences are between quickshift, ultrashift, micro-adjust etc. Hopefully it'll work though!


Micro-adjust = equals the original left hand lever that had multiple clicks (similar to right hand) to move FD.
So you required 3 or 4 clicks to move from one chainring to the next. Allowed for easy trimming of chain rub.

Quick shift (QS) = my Centaur only has 4 clicks in total. The idea, being like Shimano, it moves "quickly" between rings. It seems to have a couple of clicks for trimming purposes and I believe it will also work a triple?

Ultrashift = returned to a multishift (micro-adjust method) as must have been to many complaints from the "peleton". :roll:

All the above appertains to the left lever. The right levers all have indexing to match the RD.
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