Cartridge system

[matt2matt2002]

I am still getting to know my new Dawes Sardar.
I have ' Cartridge system inside' printed in white on top of the handle bar stem
I can see how I can raise or lower the handle bars on the stem and also alter the angle of the bars
but can i do any thing else with the cartridge system?
Does it need any attention?
Could I for instance raise the whole stem if I need more height?

[531colin]

Cartridge system refers to the headset bearings

[mill4six]

That's an A Head stem it's already as high as it will go. you can only lower it by removing the spacers underneath the clamp and putting them on top instead. To go higher you'd need a fork with with a longer headtube. Most people cut them off to about the right length leaving the spacers as the only adjustment, although a friend had a whole stack of spacers while she was getting used to a new bike.

[stoobs]

If you want to raise the stem, you will need an aheadset steerer tube extender.

[bikegeek]

Right Matt2, headsets today, is it? OK, here's the gen..

This guy explains it best...
http://sheldonbrown.com/headsets.html

See also his notes on 'Steerer' & 'Head tube' (no sniggering!)
In the picture on the right, where he marks 'no wrench flats', the arrow points to where the ball bearings for steering are. (there's another set at the other end of the headtube, not shown in the photo). On yours they are contained in a sealed cartridge. They're made to be fit & forget, and if they do go wrong you just pop in a new cartridge. Less messey than working with individual ball bearings & pots of grease.

As for handlebar height, you photo shows that the stem is as high as it will go. Altering the angle of the stem will give you a bit more height, but it will also bring the bars closer to you altering the 'reach' (your position) and subsequently the feel of the steering.

As stoobs says, if you need to raise the bar height any more, you'll need one of these.. (others are available)
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cid/WXP7W1SO ... -16189.htm
the alternative would be to fit forks with a longer steerer tube. This would be expensive & a bit wrong, as your bike is brand new.

Take care not to stretch the cables too when raising the bars.

Hope this helps, P.

[CREPELLO]

If you really need to raise the height of the bars you can do no worse than buy a BBB EXTENDER which is good for A-head and threaded stems alike. It's by far the neatest of the headset adapter/extenders available.

I would caution about the nature of the 'cartridge system inside' being "fit and forget" as Bikegeek suggests. I may be wrong, but the wording could refer to caged ball bearings which run on the permanently fitted headset races, just as traditional loose bearings would. If these bearings go rusty and wear the races out you'll need the entire headset replacing at a LBS. I say this because the Sardar is known as one of the cheaper touring bikes in the Dawes range and from what I've seen, even the top of the range Ultra Galaxy looks to come with a bog standard caged bearing headset.

[matt2matt2002]

Many thanks folks
Great replies - as usual

[bikegeek]

I may be wrong, but the wording could refer to caged ball bearings which run on the permanently fitted headset races, just as traditional loose bearings would.

It wouldn't be described as Cartridge then.

If these bearings go rusty and wear the races out you'll need the entire headset replacing at a LBS.

If they were to go rusty, you'd feel it getting stiff & get it sorted before any permanent damage was done.

P.

[CREPELLO]

I may be wrong, but the wording could refer to caged ball bearings which run on the permanently fitted headset races, just as traditional loose bearings would.

It wouldn't be described as Cartridge then.

If these bearings go rusty and wear the races out you'll need the entire headset replacing at a LBS.

If they were to go rusty, you'd feel it getting stiff & get it sorted before any permanent damage was done.

P.

Sorry Bikegeek, but it's quite easy to overlook the first signs of notchiness in the headset, especially if you are not aware how quickly deterioration can take place, or if you spend a lot of time riding in the rain. It's happened to me and I'm quite concious of my bike's mechanics. And the bearings would not necessarily feel stiff. It's all too easy to over look these things, especially when we may have spent a lot of money on a bike with high spec parts for everything, apart from the headset and BB.

As I say, it surprises me that the headset is described as being fitted with cartridges. I'm not aware of any budget headsets that come with cartridges, as we understand the definition to mean, although I could be wrong. That's why I questioned the true meaning of those words and not to question your wisdom per say. Why would Dawes fit a bog standard headset to their flagship model, and something better to their basic model???

[bikegeek]

Hi CREPELLO, the majority of lower-end headsets do now come with cartridges as standard. A lot of higher-end ones do too, but they will have a better quality sealed unit which will last longer & be better made, or so the company marketing man will tell you. On the cheaper ones the cartridge tends to be a throwaway after 12mths part. Dearer ones throwaway after a little longer, but still throwaway. (Anyone with American Classics wheels will know all about the hassles & costs of replacing cartridges). And I'd say a lot of dealers will give you the spcheel about the type of cartridge you need not being available when you need one, so buy a whole new unit, cups & all, because they can't be bothered to source one, even though they are easy to come by if you look for a non-cycling bearing supplier.

Example of a generic cartridge here..
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Cane ... -20756.htm

Example of complete 'sealed' (cartridge) headset here..
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Unbr ... k-5012.htm

Notice the price difference for a similar looking design.

I can't say for certain which h'set Matt2 has on his bike. Just knowing the bike make&model doesn't help much as often bits of finishing kit will alter with each batch build. Matt, can you give us any more info on the part so we can search for it?

I reckon that the cartridge development is a backward step and have always preferred user servicable bearings, alas nowadays they are becoming the exception rather than the norm, but moreovere a sign of quality.
I've had problems over the last year with Shimano Hollowtech II bearings failing after just one wet ride. Mr S & his network of dealers say replace the cups (£20+ each time! - No way). I've even read on here people saying 'well, I'll just get a new one, it's only £20odd'. So, at 3 per year x 5 years how much are you gonna spend on axle bearings, never mind the time & wasted materials, Jeez!! one born every day.
I've kept mine alive by using aerosol grease sprayed in through the tiny gap on the inside of the unit. Sealed my ar$e! Pain in the ar$e more like.. How I wish the seals could be improved. Or done away with..
To quote you, Crepello- Why would Dawes fit a bog standard headset to their flagship model, and something better to their basic model??? - I don't think they have. The user servicable loose bearings are just better. Are they defo still available on the newer models - anyone?

Cheers, P.

[CREPELLO]

I stand corrected on the bit about cartridges not being used on the lower end bikes. Thanks for that info. I'm not sure why the use of cartridges is retrograde though. Surely, even if the cartridge is naff, you could just replace it with a better quality one next time around, without the fear of having ruined the bearing cups. At least I'm hoping that a bearing supplier will be able to find generic quality cartridge for my Cane Creek S2 headset. (Remind myself to check those bearings on the Cheviot that has been used a lot this winter)

Regarding Dawes, I built up a 2009 Galaxy frameset that came supplied with a basic caged bearing Cane Creek headset. Now, it looked absolutely identical to a close up photo of one fitted to an Ultra Galaxy posted by someone on here. It's a distinctive profile, so it's almost certainly the same headset. And caged bearings were certainly a retrograde move over loose balls IMO.

[bikegeek]

I know a guy who gets wheel bearings in cartridges from a non-cycling source, so I'll ask him for the details next time I see him. He reckons its a 40% saving.
My problem with cartridges is the replacement frequency and the fact that they're never fully sealed. Once water gets in, you're beat. See my comments on Hollowtech above. Thankfully h'sets are less exposed that b.brackets.
I'd rather have caged over cartridge and loose over caged anyday. What do the experts think - CJ, MickF?

Cheers, P.

[CREPELLO]

My problem with cartridges is the replacement frequency and the fact that they're never fully sealed. Once water gets in, you're beat. See my comments on Hollowtech above. Thankfully h'sets are less exposed that b.brackets.
I'd rather have caged over cartridge and loose over caged anyday. What do the experts think - CJ, MickF?

Cheers, P.

Sorry, I'm not the expert you were requesting, but why would you prefer a cage with less balls for the bearing race, when you can buy high grade loose balls and fit more in the headset? More balls = less load per ball and more even wear for the entire assembly, no?

[reohn2]

matt2matt2002
If I were you I'd enroll on a good bike maintence course (or ask if a LBS would be willing to offer the right instruction), to familierize myself with all the necessary maintence issues that are going to crop up on a world tour such as you are about to embark on.
I would then spend some time putting what I've learned into practice before setting off.Most of the stuff you're asking may never need doing but if anything does go wrong its nice knowing that you're capable of roadside repair of any kind,if only to get you to civilisation.
I hope you don't think I'm trying to fob you off or belittle you in any way,just trying to help as I feel the questions you're asking would be better on a one to one basis with someone with the knowledge you seek,specific to you're particular bike.

[matt2matt2002]

Many thanks rehon2
Good advice - and nearer the time of my departure I plan to spend some time on a 1 2 1 basis at my LBS
I hope some of my recent questions haven't appeared too dumb for those folk here.
(The one I asked about the value of peddling down hill raised quite a few opinions)


Many thanks for your and other comments