Worn hub?.

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DaveyDave
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Joined: 13 Jul 2008, 6:40pm

Worn hub?.

Post by DaveyDave »

Hi All,
I've been looking at my Dawes Galaxy with the view to preparing it for touring this summer. With the bike upside down and with the rear wheel turning quickly, I noticed that there was some vibration which was particularly obvious when gripping the frame tightly with my hand. I know that the spindle rotates nicely within the hub when the wheel is removed from the bike frame so I think there's nothing badly wrong, but I'm a bit worried about the condition of the hub and bearings and I assume it is these that are causing the vibration. I've had the hub to bits recently when changing the cassette and know that there are 10 or so ball bearings in either side which are all present and correct. The hub and wheel are, I think, in reasonable condition but must have done > 4000 miles. Is it worth replacing the ball bearings in the same hub or do you think that the whole hub and presumably the wheel itself would have to be replaced to improve the situation?. Any other ideas?.

Thanks for any comments or suggestions,
Dave
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meic
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Re: Worn hub?.

Post by meic »

First thing to check is that you didnt make it a little too tight when you reassembled it.
Try loosening your cones a tiny bit to see if it improves.
They say that a quick release axle will make the bearings even tighter when clamped up so such axles have to be assembled with a little play still in them.

If the ball bearings were all nice and shiny then they should have been OK.
Yma o Hyd
DaveyDave
Posts: 48
Joined: 13 Jul 2008, 6:40pm

Re: Worn hub?.

Post by DaveyDave »

meic wrote:First thing to check is that you didnt make it a little too tight when you reassembled it.
Try loosening your cones a tiny bit to see if it improves.
They say that a quick release axle will make the bearings even tighter when clamped up so such axles have to be assembled with a little play still in them.

If the ball bearings were all nice and shiny then they should have been OK.


Certainly before the wheel was put back into the frame, the spindle rotated fine and without 'rumbles' (if that's the right word). Difficult to say whether the bearings were 'shiny' as they were pretty much covered in grease!. I may try loosening it up a bit.
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meic
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Re: Worn hub?.

Post by meic »

Ah, I had assumed that you had removed, cleaned and regreased the bearings.
That way you can look at the bearings and the cones to see if all is OK.
Or to decide how much pitting you are happy to live with.

If the rumbling remains and you decide to take it apart again remember to keep the ball bearings from each side separate from each other as they will have worn together.
Although many people just renew them anyway if they have gone to the effort of disassembling.
Yma o Hyd
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531colin
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Re: Worn hub?.

Post by 531colin »

I reckon "rumble" in a bearing has to be a bad thing. If you strip it and clean up the bits, I expect the axle cones will be worn. (Sheldon will have a picture, wont he?)
I find the cones wear first, I guess because they have the least area of contact. You should be able to get spares. I always re- use the original balls, because they are better quality than most sold in bike shops. (theres a thread on that). While you're at it why not drill the hubs so you can grease them with a grease gun next time?
Thats on here too, somewhere!
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CREPELLO
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Re: Worn hub?.

Post by CREPELLO »

The other thing it could be is the the freehub that the cassette slides onto. If it's the basic Galaxy, they use a cheaper hub that (whilst ok in itself) uses a freehub that can often fails early. Apart from the ratchet mechanism it contains secondary bearings and the whole unit may become rough or stiff. To test it and the main wheel bearings, take the chain off and rotate the wheel in the bike. This first test will test for roughness of the main bearings. Then rotate the wheel again, but this time holding the cassette stationary - this will activate the freehub mechanism and it's bearings. A variation of this test can also be repeated with the chain on - once you've turned the pedals and let go, if they continue to turn (even a little), you know you've got a worn or stiff freehub. The freehub isn't readily serviceable but removing and flushing it with oil may help.
DaveyDave
Posts: 48
Joined: 13 Jul 2008, 6:40pm

Re: Worn hub?.

Post by DaveyDave »

531colin wrote:I reckon "rumble" in a bearing has to be a bad thing. If you strip it and clean up the bits, I expect the axle cones will be worn. (Sheldon will have a picture, wont he?)
I find the cones wear first, I guess because they have the least area of contact. You should be able to get spares. I always re- use the original balls, because they are better quality than most sold in bike shops. (theres a thread on that). While you're at it why not drill the hubs so you can grease them with a grease gun next time?
Thats on here too, somewhere!


Presumably though the ball bearings are captured between the cones on the spindle and the hub housing?. I guess I could replace the bearings and the cones, but presumably it's not possible to replace the hub housing without replacing the entire wheel?.
DaveyDave
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Joined: 13 Jul 2008, 6:40pm

Re: Worn hub?.

Post by DaveyDave »

CREPELLO wrote:The other thing it could be is the the freehub that the cassette slides onto. If it's the basic Galaxy, they use a cheaper hub that (whilst ok in itself) uses a freehub that can often fails early. Apart from the ratchet mechanism it contains secondary bearings and the whole unit may become rough or stiff. To test it and the main wheel bearings, take the chain off and rotate the wheel in the bike. This first test will test for roughness of the main bearings. Then rotate the wheel again, but this time holding the cassette stationary - this will activate the freehub mechanism and it's bearings. A variation of this test can also be repeated with the chain on - once you've turned the pedals and let go, if they continue to turn (even a little), you know you've got a worn or stiff freehub. The freehub isn't readily serviceable but removing and flushing it with oil may help.


I reckon it's the main bearing. I rotated the rear wheel with the cassette rotating and also without and the rumble is always there. It's a 96 Galaxy and as far as I know (its second hand) the hub has never been changed.
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meic
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Re: Worn hub?.

Post by meic »

I tend to find that it is cheaper and easier to buy a whole hub on the web rather than any of its parts separately.
However as you say that means rebuilding the wheel.

Having been in this situation, where ball bearings were severly damaged and the cones pitted, I did just replace the ball bearings and continue to ride the wheel for thousands more miles. Until the freehub colapsed.
Then i rebuilt the wheel on another hub.

Personally I would live with the rumble rather than go to a lot of work or expense.
Yma o Hyd
DaveyDave
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Joined: 13 Jul 2008, 6:40pm

Re: Worn hub?.

Post by DaveyDave »

meic wrote:I tend to find that it is cheaper and easier to buy a whole hub on the web rather than any of its parts separately.
However as you say that means rebuilding the wheel.

Having been in this situation, where ball bearings were severly damaged and the cones pitted, I did just replace the ball bearings and continue to ride the wheel for thousands more miles. Until the freehub colapsed.
Then i rebuilt the wheel on another hub.

Personally I would live with the rumble rather than go to a lot of work or expense.


Yeah, it's probably OK and it's probably been like that for many miles. It's just that I'm planning a 1000mile tour with a loaded bike in a country where there aren't many bike shops and I want to make sure that nothing's about to expire. Armed with your comments, I think I'll have the hub apart, clean everything and look for any wear on the bearings and the cones. Seems like replacing these would be cheap and easy (providing I ensure the quality - Simply Bearings seems to be the recommended supplier) and would limit the possibility of a ball bearing breaking mid-tour.

Thanks for all your comments,
Dave
Cranks
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Joined: 30 Apr 2009, 5:07pm

Re: Worn hub?.

Post by Cranks »

Do you get the same noise/feeling when you do the same with the bike the right way up?
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531colin
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Re: Worn hub?.

Post by 531colin »

DaveyDave wrote:
Yeah, it's probably OK and it's probably been like that for many miles. It's just that I'm planning a 1000mile tour with a loaded bike in a country where there aren't many bike shops and I want to make sure that nothing's about to expire. Armed with your comments, I think I'll have the hub apart, clean everything and look for any wear on the bearings and the cones. Seems like replacing these would be cheap and easy (providing I ensure the quality - Simply Bearings seems to be the recommended supplier) and would limit the possibility of a ball bearing breaking mid-tour.

Thanks for all your comments,
Dave



That 1000miler gives us a bit of context! You wont break a decent quality ball bearing, honest. I still think you are going to find worn cones when you strip it, and normally they are worth replacing (ie cheap and beneficial). IMO the balls wont be worn and dont need replacing.

Now to the 1000 miler - on a 14 year old back wheel? As various of us have said, bearings are not likely to undergo sudden catastrophic failure. However, wheel rims and spokes most definitely are. Check that there is plenty of wear left in the braking surfaces of the rim. Even if there is, this is a 14 year old machine built wheel. Before setting off on tour, get yourself an NBT (this is a take-along tool to remove the casstte, about as big as a 50p coin) and a handful of spare spokes, and make sure you can use them!!
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