The right grease

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Mick F
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Re: The right grease

Postby Mick F » 28 Sep 2010, 8:55am

If it helps, I'll have two cartridges.

See you in "For Sale".
Mick F. Cornwall

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meic
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Re: The right grease

Postby meic » 28 Sep 2010, 9:42am

Then you could put the advertising slogan

"As used by MickF"

on the side of the packet, should sell like hotcakes then. :lol:

Pity it couldnt have Dura-ace written on the packet too.
Yma o Hyd

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Mick F
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Re: The right grease

Postby Mick F » 28 Sep 2010, 10:20am

I must confess that I bought some Dura Ace grease some time back. Campag don't sell their grease nowadays.
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... HIMLUBE250 only the 50g tub!
Nowt special, just nice smooth grease. The Campag stuff was waterproof.
Mick F. Cornwall

Tonyf33
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Re: The right grease

Postby Tonyf33 » 28 Sep 2010, 2:55pm

here is the Mobil chart http://www.thelubricantcompany.co.uk/do ... _Specs.pdf the 460 has an NLGI rating of 1.5, most std greases are 2.
You can get Lithium thickened greases with Molybdenum that have very high VI ratings.

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Mick F
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Re: The right grease

Postby Mick F » 28 Sep 2010, 5:12pm

I had to look it up!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLGI_Grade

Good grease isn't necessarily needing to be thick, just good at being what it is. High pressure resistance is what's wanted here.

...or am I talking rot?
Mick F. Cornwall

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531colin
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Re: The right grease

Postby 531colin » 28 Sep 2010, 6:30pm

Tonyf33 wrote:here is the Mobil chart http://www.thelubricantcompany.co.uk/do ... _Specs.pdf the 460 has an NLGI rating of 1.5, most std greases are 2.
You can get Lithium thickened greases with Molybdenum that have very high VI ratings.


Im afraid I am unable to interpret any of this data, I was simply relying on CJ's recommendation.

Euskadi
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Re: The right grease

Postby Euskadi » 28 Sep 2010, 6:55pm

I'll take a couple of tubes as well if it helps :D

Tonyf33
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Re: The right grease

Postby Tonyf33 » 3 Oct 2010, 12:16pm

The NLGI rating (In general terms how thick it is at x temperature) bands lubes into categories that have maximum & minimum specifications. So although a 1.5 NLGI rating doesn't strictly speaking exist it places it between say the SCH1500 mobil product that was mentioned earlier in the thread and thicker (less viscous) moly & general purpose greases.
You can buy Moly greases readily these days for little more than a couple of quid for a 1lb pot if you know where to look :wink:
So whilst in essence the 460 Mobilith should have less resistance with great protection I'm not sure it is cost justified (6 times more expensive) at the level of performance we are talking about compared to a moly grease.
My personal view on it anyway.

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531colin
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Re: The right grease

Postby 531colin » 3 Oct 2010, 1:03pm

OK, chaps, the LAST thing I want to do is sell overpriced "snake oil" to the good people on this forum, specially when doing the buying and selling is turning out to be a lot more long- winded than I thought! (and if a cartridge gets lost in the post, I shall end up out of pocket, in addition to being unpopular)
So. I think the material things are;

Tony, I certainly dont know where to look to find decent grease at a good price, care to enlighten us? Also, if the tub came with a disc-with-a-hole-in-it so I could fill my grease gun, that would be what i started out looking for in the first place.

The price differential is obvious......anybody care to estimate how much "better" the expensive stuff is? (and define better, come to that)

From my own point of view, as I drill my hubs for lubrication, hubs durability isnt a problem. I recently spoiled a headset by letting the grease dry out during years of neglect. BB units dont get greased anyway. Im talking myself out of expensive grease, but I'm happy to be advised by anybody with the knowledge.
EDIT forgot the pedals (cheers Mick) easy job with Shimano.
Last edited by 531colin on 3 Oct 2010, 1:25pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mick F
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Re: The right grease

Postby Mick F » 3 Oct 2010, 1:14pm

For my own part, I'd like to get the best grease available - cost comes into the equation, but so what? Even if you can buy grease for pennies or tens of pounds, you use so little at a time, it makes no difference.

Bearings to grease (on my bike):
Hubs
Headset
Jockey Wheels

Everything else is sealed and unmaintainable. Pedals are sealed for life, ditto the BB. Brakes and dérailleurs need oil every now and again - but not very often.

Therefore, if I can buy a grease that will do all my (few) greasable bits and bobs, and will prolong their lives - especially the headset which is a pain to strip, clean, and regrease - I'm all for it. Two sachets of "The Good Stuff" will last me the rest of my cycling life.

If CJ say's it's good, that's good enough for me.
Mick F. Cornwall

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CREPELLO
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Re: The right grease

Postby CREPELLO » 3 Oct 2010, 1:25pm

Personally I use Silkolene Pro RG2 synthetic grease for the headset. I bought it as a quality grease from recommendation, but found it a very thick; too thick for wheel bearings, so it just comes out for the headset. I'd use it on BB bearings if they were serviceable.

For wheel bearings I'm just using Castrol lithium grease. If I'm going to drill the hubs for grease injection (imminently, when I can find the right sort of grommit) I don't see the need for some exotic spec'd grease; hub bearings are not deficient in design in the way that headset bearings are.

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Re: The right grease

Postby Tonyf33 » 3 Oct 2010, 3:10pm

Colin, a Scottish company sell two differing moly greases. One is £1.90 the other is £2.60 (Moly Disulphide variant) going to the checkout you can buy 1 or 20 and the 1st class postage remains the same at £1.50 although VAT is added onto the total. So if you only bought 1 of the cheaper it would cost £4 posted, still 33% cheaper than anything else I can see out there.

If you were to buy a bulk lot to re-distribute then with postage & packaging for each individual it is actually cheaper for persons to buy direct & saves you the hassle. Not quite the 6xless than the Mobilith460 but 4x cheaper & with 20% more actual product (380g of the Mobilith 460 compared to 450g)
http://www.bearings-online.co.uk/browse ... 0_0_0.html

The mobil XHP 222 is the same high pressure Disulphide as the more expensive type from Bearings online and in reality are similarly priced. The company you highlighted 'lubricant supplies' it works out to £39.95 for a case of 12x400g tubes delivered inclusive of VAT with obviously another £1.95 per tube to be re-sent via 2nd class post so that is £5.27 actual cost per unit. Obviously you wouldn't want to be out of pocket in your costs if you were sorting it out so whatever on top of that.

From bearings online a single tub of the MoS2 disulphide grease is £4.60 delivered or for example £38.42 for 12

Persoanlly I'm not convinced that we need high pressure (disulphide type) grease myself given the comparative forces involved & that standard lithium grease has been fine for decades but there you go.
Hope that helps, or does it muddy the water further...sorry

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531colin
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Re: The right grease

Postby 531colin » 3 Oct 2010, 4:17pm

I'm getting more and more confused.
CJ was talking about base oil viscosity and the squeeze resistance of synthetic oils. He more or less dismissed molybdenum disulphide.
Tony and others are recommending moly. greases
Then theres EP additives. OK they smell of tom cat pee, but what do they do thats useful? Im guessing that EP stands for extreme pressure, but is moly. an EP additive or a different sort of additive? And does moly. grease stink?

As to price, I suppose if it protects expensive components then its worth its money...says the man who couldnt bring himself to suggest buying Mobilith1500.....

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7_lives_left
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Re: The right grease

Postby 7_lives_left » 3 Oct 2010, 5:03pm

The grease that Tonyf33 linked to was mineral oil based and didn't specify the viscosity. My reading of CJ's post was that it was the base oil viscosity that was important, hence his preference for the Mobilith SHC 1500 (bigger number = more viscosity). Synthetic oils are created specially for their higher viscosity.

Moly disulphide (MoS2) is an extreme pressure additive (as is graphite) but there are a whole host of other EP additives. I don't know but I suspect that MoS2 doesn't smell but the other ones do. Reasoning: MoS2 sticks around when bearings overheat, so it is not volatile. It forms a large sheet like structure with alternating layers of molybdenum and sulphur which is what gives it it's lubricating properties (similar to graphite).

The NLGI rating is neither here nor there, it's a measure of how thick the soap is.

Here's another bit of speculation without any knowledge or experience to back it up. Moly grease will be dark in colour, whereas lithium grease or the fancy Mobilith greases will be clear or light coloured. If the bearing gets contaminated with dirt or debris from a failed bearing surface, you will easily see the discolouration with the light coloured grease but it will be more difficult to spot with molly grease.

I would welcome someone more knowledgeable telling me if I'm talking rot or not.

I'm still interested in the Mobilith grease if you are buying it Colin

Edit: Wikipedia the font of all knowledge on Libricants:base oil
Last edited by 7_lives_left on 3 Oct 2010, 5:21pm, edited 1 time in total.

GrahamNR17
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Re: The right grease

Postby GrahamNR17 » 3 Oct 2010, 5:14pm

7_lives_left wrote:Here's another bit of speculation without any knowledge or experience to back it up. Moly grease will be dark in colour, whereas lithium grease or the fancy Mobilith greases will be clear or light coloured. If the bearing gets contaminated with dirt or debris from a failed bearing surface, you will easily see the discolouration with the light coloured grease but it will be more difficult to spot with molly grease.

Yep, that's the downside. A quick visual inspection doesn't tell you anything. If I remove a cone/cup for any reason, I generally scoop out the old grease, and replenish following a quick clean. For bottom brackets I've reverted back to oil. But then I get a great deal of satisfaction from my weekly squirt with the oil can :oops: