What is "road buzz"

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reohn2
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Re: What is "road buzz"

Postby reohn2 » 13 Feb 2011, 10:02am

I'm with Colin on this,but.....
I have an Alu bike (Aeron TR) with a 4NZA carbon fork with 25mm Gatorskins fitted,the bike itself is a nice ride,the fork is harsh and uncomfortable in comparison to any steel fork I've ridden,I've fitted the bars with FiZiK gel pads which transformed the comfort.
We also ride Cannondale Tandem with an Alu "Fatty" fork,(this has got to be the biggest, ugliest, agricultural looking beast I've ever seen on a bike,but it needs to be with 203mm disc brake fitted).We run a 32mm Ribmo tyre @ 85psi in it and again FiZiK gel result,comfort.
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Mick F
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Re: What is "road buzz"

Postby Mick F » 13 Feb 2011, 10:03am

I went on a long ride yesterday and on the way back I rode along a road (hee hee!) with very rough tarmac. The surface was even, solid and well laid, but it was laid with large gravel chippings all bound with tar.

Road Buzz? Not me, even on 20mm tyres. A good springy steel frame absorbs Road Buzz very nicely thank you.
Mick F. Cornwall

Freddie
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Re: What is "road buzz"

Postby Freddie » 13 Feb 2011, 11:34am

Springy steel, where exactly is it springy?.

The idea that any frame material could diffuse surface irregularities as much as a pnuematic tyre is nonsense. One would hope a steel frame isn't vertically compliant. The feel of a less rigid frame is another thing entirely, any movement around the bottom bracket is going to loose you forward momentum, which can't be a good thing, can it?. Fore/aft movement in the fork blades seems to be subjectively a good thing and may allow one to run a thinner/higher pressure tyre with the same degree of comfort as wider/lower pressure tyre and stiffer fork.

Mick, we all know how superlative your Mercian is, but I think I speak for almost everyone when I say that we tire of hearing how it subverts the laws of physics, you know what road buzz is (or at least what is meant by the term), even if your pride won't admit it. If you have nothing to add to a thread but more rhetoric, please keep it to yourself. Your shooting down of every thread that doesn't meant your expectations with "I don't experience this, it doesn't exist" is boring beyond reprieve.

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Mick F
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Re: What is "road buzz"

Postby Mick F » 13 Feb 2011, 12:16pm

Come on Freddie, you don't think I'm making this up do you? :twisted:

If you were to ride a good steel frame with good steel forks, you could SEE them springing!

This is the problem with modern alu and carbon. They are very efficient at the cost of comfort.
Mick F. Cornwall

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531colin
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Re: What is "road buzz"

Postby 531colin » 13 Feb 2011, 12:30pm

reohn2 wrote:I'm with Colin on this,but.....
I have an Alu bike (Aeron TR) with a 4NZA carbon fork with 25mm Gatorskins fitted,the bike itself is a nice ride,the fork is harsh and uncomfortable in comparison to any steel fork I've ridden,I've fitted the bars with FiZiK gel pads which transformed the comfort.
We also ride Cannondale Tandem with an Alu "Fatty" fork,(this has got to be the biggest, ugliest, agricultural looking beast I've ever seen on a bike,but it needs to be with 203mm disc brake fitted).We run a 32mm Ribmo tyre @ 85psi in it and again FiZiK gel result,comfort.


Seems to me these are the sort of choices we make. Either consciously or unconsciously you have chosen a sporty bike (I guess, I dont know it) and pretty sporty tyres, a combination with scant regard for comfort. What pressure do you run in the solo?

In the case of the tandem, you have opted for stopping power, a choice I can identify with completely, having frightened myself several times. The unyielding fork is a necessary evil, but a compliant 32mm tyre at 85 psi on a tandem should give you a bit of cushioning. I would not be surprised if the tandem was OK without the bar gel.

Not quite so bad when you have enough experience to understand that you are making choices when buying a bike, but pity the beginners!

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531colin
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Re: What is "road buzz"

Postby 531colin » 13 Feb 2011, 12:34pm

In the context of the arguement developing between Freddie and Mick F. (is it raining all over the UK?).............
What a shame reohn2 can't borrow Mick F's 531c forks to try on his solo......

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Mick F
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Re: What is "road buzz"

Postby Mick F » 13 Feb 2011, 12:38pm

531colin wrote:In the context of the arguement developing between Freddie and Mick F. (is it raining all over the UK?).............
What a shame reohn2 can't borrow Mick F's 531c forks to try on his solo......
Well he can't.
So there!

(BTW, rain's stopped here, and I've just washed my "superlative" Mercian. Springy forks and all! )
Mick F. Cornwall

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meic
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Re: What is "road buzz"

Postby meic » 13 Feb 2011, 12:38pm

My Holdsworth is springy, you can watch the fork ends moving back and forwards by inches as you ride.
AND it has absolutely horrific road buzz. You can watch the water bottle (only the one on the down tube) vibrating as you ride and the handlebars are worse they are vibrating around a centimetre from end to end of the oscillations.

There is nothing wrong with the headset before anyone suggests that possibility.
Before doing the headset the thing was a nightmare in other ways too.
It does however have almost ZERO rake and very steep angles.
Yma o Hyd

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531colin
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Re: What is "road buzz"

Postby 531colin » 13 Feb 2011, 12:41pm


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531colin
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Re: What is "road buzz"

Postby 531colin » 13 Feb 2011, 12:44pm

meic wrote:My Holdsworth is springy, .......
AND it has absolutely horrific road buzz. .......
It does however have almost ZERO rake and very steep angles.


Yup, good frame material wont get round poor design (or was it designed solely for speed?)

reohn2
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Re: What is "road buzz"

Postby reohn2 » 13 Feb 2011, 5:43pm

531colin wrote:Seems to me these are the sort of choices we make. Either consciously or unconsciously you have chosen a sporty bike (I guess, I dont know it) and pretty sporty tyres, a combination with scant regard for comfort.

Yep, the Aeron was chosen for its stiff frame and sporty, because its the first(and probably the last) carbon fork I've ever ridden, I believed (wrongly) that it would be complient (its not its as stiff as a crutch).However despite that, with the help of the gel pads under the bar tape its a nice ride and due to the stiff frame,climbs well.
The fork will take a 28mm Gatorskin,so though I'm riding it with a 25mm on ATM there is that option,but for comfort the fork is nowhere near as good as the steel one on my Thorn Audax Mk3,a real mile muncher :)

What pressure do you run in the solo?

I run the Aeron at 85psi front 95psi rear.Initially I ran the front at 90psi but it was all over the place and I feared for my fillings :shock: but the gel pads and 5psi less in the front "cured" the carbon conudrum.

In the case of the tandem, you have opted for stopping power, a choice I can identify with completely, having frightened myself several times. The unyielding fork is a necessary evil, but a compliant 32mm tyre at 85 psi on a tandem should give you a bit of cushioning. I would not be surprised if the tandem was OK without the bar gel.

I've never tried it without the gel,infact when I bought the bike I didn't know it was there and was surprised by its comfort,I only found the gel pads when replacing the bar tape.
The bike was bought as a winter/dirty weather tandem because it ticked all the boxes(though that front fork had a few sideways glances from me initially) ie;light (19kgs) BB7 disc brakes (awesome),stiff frame (Cannondale the best alu IMO) and price £1400 S/hand ( against £2,700 new)with with less than 500miles use looking just like new bike.
We run it on P/racer RibMo's 32mm front and 35mm rear and have found 85psi front and back to be optimum.

Not quite so bad when you have enough experience to understand that you are making choices when buying a bike, but pity the beginners!

Quite right,the number people out there riding stripped down race bikes and 23mm rubber who don't know any different is quite surprising,they seem to be following fashion that they read about in C+ to my mind.
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beetroot
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Re: What is "road buzz"

Postby beetroot » 13 Feb 2011, 6:10pm

Well I'm one of those that have fallen for the fashion bike lightweight carbon frame and forks with 23mm tyres. I can't say that I am uduely uncomfortable on the bike and have never sufferred discomfort from road buzz. Ocassionaly there will be a bit of vibration on particularly poor surfaces but this really is infrequent and doesn't last long. On the other hand the benefits from light weight in terms of climbing, performance and decreased fatique are worth having.

Maybe suffering from road buzz is more to do with rider. One who seats "heavily" on the bike or has tension in their arms and upper body is more likely to suffer than the relaxed rider

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corshamjim
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Re: What is "road buzz"

Postby corshamjim » 13 Feb 2011, 6:17pm

I certainly get plenty of road buzz on the Dahon D7 folder if I lower the handlebars (which is easy to do on a folder!). In a more upright position it can eat up the miles okay though.
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reohn2
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Re: What is "road buzz"

Postby reohn2 » 13 Feb 2011, 6:34pm

beetroot wrote:Maybe suffering from road buzz is more to do with rider. One who seats "heavily" on the bike or has tension in their arms and upper body is more likely to suffer than the relaxed rider

Yes thats definately a possible,but if we take those out of the equation by comparing different bikes with the same rider it then comes down to the bike which is whats being discussed.
I've done 100mile rides on both the Aeron and on the Thorn Audax Mk3 (both bikes are set up exactly the same with the same gear range) and whilst both are comfortable the one thats more comfortable in the last 20miles or so is without doubt the Thorn.

One thing that I feel I should mention is that I'm a 58year old Arthritic and damaged individual with a lifetime of manual labour behind me and well aware of the nuances of riding "light" and conserving energy.
If I were a 30 year old prime of life individual who sprung out of bed every morning like it were a trampoline,I may not notice the differences of function over form :) .
As it is small differences can mean a lot at the end of long rides these days.
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kenem
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Re: What is "road buzz"

Postby kenem » 13 Feb 2011, 7:00pm

The most important aspect of vibration damping, by far, is tyre choice and pressure. The rest; frame/fork design, material, wheels etc. have much less influence. A wider tyre, of good quality and with compliant sidewalls, inflated to the recommended pressure will always reduce vibration, compared with a narrower tyre. Although I'm a long in the tooth, ex-road racer, I've always preferred wider, compliant tyres - they have such a comfortable but lively feel compared with the dead ubiquitous 23mm variety. Problem is you won't get anything bigger than 23mm on most 'modern' bikes.... but that's another story.