Dawes Ultra Galaxy

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caer urfa
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Dawes Ultra Galaxy

Postby caer urfa » 20 Feb 2011, 7:51pm

I see that the recomended selling price for the 2011model is stated as £1700 and that the 2010 model was reckoned to be £1850 .

Why would the 2011 model be stated as cheaper than the 2010 model? Reduced spec? Stronger sterling? or manufacturers cutting their margins in these difficult trading times? or maybe all 3?

What's the answer?

thirdcrank
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Re: Dawes Ultra Galaxy

Postby thirdcrank » 20 Feb 2011, 8:46pm

I've not checked the spec but there is often little continuity - other than the name and being a touring bike - between one year's Galaxies and the next's.

Valbrona
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Re: Dawes Ultra Galaxy

Postby Valbrona » 20 Feb 2011, 9:37pm

Someone tell Mr Dawes that 700c touring bikes do not really work as well as 26".
I should coco.

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531colin
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Re: Dawes Ultra Galaxy

Postby 531colin » 20 Feb 2011, 11:45pm

thirdcrank wrote:I've not checked the spec but there is often little continuity - other than the name and being a touring bike - between one year's Galaxies and the next's.


2011 Galaxy series steering geometry is changed from 2010, probably for the better.
2011 Galaxies and Horizons have identical frame geometries, which makes you wonder why they havn't in previous years.

vjosullivan
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Re: Dawes Ultra Galaxy

Postby vjosullivan » 22 Feb 2011, 6:03pm

caer urfa wrote:I see that the recomended selling price for the 2011model is stated as £1700 and that the 2010 model was reckoned to be £1850 .

Why would the 2011 model be stated as cheaper than the 2010 model? Reduced spec? Stronger sterling? or manufacturers cutting their margins in these difficult trading times? or maybe all 3?

What's the answer?

I doubt that it's down to currency changes. The euros I bought last week were the most expensive I've encountered. More likely someone has decided that Galaxies are too expensive for the current market. The titanium model appears to have disappeared. I'm seriously tempted by the 2011 model having seen some of the sale offers. I'm still in the process of checking out the components (unfortunately I can't tell at-a-glance how good the bits are).

The 28/48 front to 11/32 rear gears seem A bit fast for touring though some sources seem to think it's ok unless heavily laden in hilly terrain.

What I'd like to see would be a blog or something similar from the guys at Dawes who are responsible for the bike's design and why they think it's a good design (which I assume they do) and why they're proud of it. They're web site does little more than list the components). No testimonials, no recent Galaxy related achievements or events that I can see.
E25

caer urfa
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Joined: 26 Jul 2007, 9:39pm

Re: Dawes Ultra Galaxy

Postby caer urfa » 22 Feb 2011, 8:33pm

Thanks for the replies so far.

I'm sure that some of the more technically savy contributers could let us less so understand the merit of the components that make up the Galaxy (past & present)? I wonder if one year (or years) stand out as a particuar peak in quality?

I tend to think also that it could also be what the manufacturer thinks that the market could stand at the moment (I suppose that's down to margins again) when considered against competitors. Wouldn't like to think (if spec equivilent) that those who bought
in 2010 have the bike equivilent of negative equity?

snibgo
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Re: Dawes Ultra Galaxy

Postby snibgo » 22 Feb 2011, 8:47pm

I'm not sure how relevant MSSPs are.

For example, according to Spa (http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b1s21p0), the Galaxy 2011 model is £50 cheaper (MSSP) than the 2010 model. But they'll sell you one for £780, which is £30 more than they were selling the 2010 model. True, the 2010 model price has recently increased from £750 to £850.

They don't list the 2011 components.

thirdcrank
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Re: Dawes Ultra Galaxy

Postby thirdcrank » 22 Feb 2011, 9:12pm

The Dawes Galaxy, and more recently some brass-knobs variations, has been around for something like 40 years. The only really consistent feature, apart from the name, is that these bikes have been nice tourers but not exotic.

Bearing in mind the big tradition of handbuilt "lightweight" tourers in this country, I think it's fair to say that Dawes were always at the upper end of the mass-built market and made in much smaller numbers than bikes like Raleighs. Raleigh UK production stopped, the "lightweight" trade shrank, and Dawes relative position in the market probably moved up a bit since they catered for traditional UK tourists.

It's wrong to think in terms of car models, which are introduced, run for several years with facelifts and special editions to get the most out of the investment on tooling etc, before they build a new Focus or whatever.

The Galaxy has changed from year to year with nothing that would necessariliy connect two versions if the transfers were masked. Even the type of frame tubing has switched from time to time, without following a trend. The only way to tell what's what is to get the detailed spec and read it.

A few years ago, CJ did a detailed history of the Galaxy - first 30 years (?) - but apart from him I doubt if there is anybody with so much info, unless there is an avid catalogue collector. They are the sort of bike somebody buys and keeps for years, possibly upgrading occasionally. I don't think you see Dawes bikes on websites like Classic Lightweights.

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531colin
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Re: Dawes Ultra Galaxy

Postby 531colin » 22 Feb 2011, 9:51pm

2010 ultra spec. here...http://www.dawescycles.com/p-351-ultra-galaxy.aspx
2011 ultra spec. here....http://www.dawescycles.com/p-412-ultra-galaxy.aspx

Can't seem to find 2010 geometries at the moment, but all 2011 geometries are here, http://www.dawescycles.com/2011/dawes_2011_digital_brochure.pdf, next to last page.
2011 galaxies could be made on a different continent to the 2010 bikes, for all I know.
Geometry is suddenly common between Horizon series and galaxy series, and I personally dont like the look of the new unicrown fork on the 2011 ultra...http://www.dawescycles.com/p-474-ultra-galaxy-frameset.aspx...
All this could be rationalisation of production, to keep down unit costs, shipping costs, etc. . Nothing wrong with that, somebody already mentioned what price the market can bear.

hamish
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Re: Dawes Ultra Galaxy

Postby hamish » 23 Feb 2011, 10:14am

531colin wrote:I personally dont like the look of the new unicrown fork on the 2011 ultra


I agree with Colin - I just don't like the look of those on a 700c tourer - probably just prejudice of course - I think that unicrown forks put me off a Ridgeback a few years ago when I was looking for reasons to choose between a Panorama and a Condor.

Are they any better or worse than a cast crown or double plate, etc? I used to be happy with them on my old MTBs when they were standard.

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horizon
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Re: Dawes Ultra Galaxy

Postby horizon » 24 Feb 2011, 6:55pm

thirdcrank wrote:I've not checked the spec but there is often little continuity - other than the name and being a touring bike - between one year's Galaxies and the next's.


I am not sure this is true. The Galaxy was consistently a 531ST LWB, drop handlebarred, horizontal top tube tourer at least from 1985 and AFAIK from the beginning (in 1970?). It ploddingly and predictably upgraded (usually a couple of years behind everyone else) through the gears (18 speed in 1985 up to 27 today), DTs to bar ends, quill to Ahead, 27" to 700c, whatever to Shimano, Conti 32 to Schwalbe 32, centre pull to cantis and so on and so forth. It always came with a rear rack, mudguards and toe clips.

The biggest change (and you could almost hear them squirming at Dawes) was from UK built frame with lugs to welded Taiwan (?) frame, through the Reynolds numbers to 631 and finally to a sloping top tube. It was all completely inevitable and predictable. Geometries may have changed I haven't checked.
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right leg. (G. M. Trevelyan)
PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

caer urfa
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Re: Dawes Ultra Galaxy

Postby caer urfa » 25 Feb 2011, 9:48pm

Great contributions - fascinating history!!

Lets have more!!

Thank to All

CU

benjaminn
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Re: Dawes Ultra Galaxy

Postby benjaminn » 25 Feb 2011, 11:32pm

Why do people not like unicrown forks?
I think they look uglier, and would always prefer a traditional fork,but what are the structural disadvantages?

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CREPELLO
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Re: Dawes Ultra Galaxy

Postby CREPELLO » 26 Feb 2011, 12:08am

I'm not aware of any structural disadvantages. If they're good enough for MTB's, then they're good enough for touring. The whole modern touring frame look wouldn't be half as bad if the welding was filed afterwards, like fillet brazing. Or was kept small and neat. Look at uni-crown forks made by Chaz Roberts (or any other bespoke frame builder) - they aren't ugly because they are properly finished. I'm fortunate to have a Hewitt Cheviot, with cast crown forks and lugged rear drop outs (as did the early Ultra Gal's. Sort of made up for the loss of lugs elsewhere!). The main welding is very neat and is also neatly hidden by the dark nature of the flamboyant paintwork. Could almost be fillet brazed. Indeed, they were sold as fillet brazed, although I since established that they are just welded. But I digress.

I had uni-crown replacements fitted to my old '02 Gal. Previously two uni-crown forks had failed due to defeciencies around the mid fork rack mount. The uni-crowns had the rack mount through the centre of the leg. This was inherently stronger, more stable and seemed to be standard on many uni-crowns. I notice the new Gal's retain the usual external braze on.

vjosullivan
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Re: Dawes Ultra Galaxy

Postby vjosullivan » 2 Mar 2011, 7:09pm

531colin wrote:2011 Galaxy series steering geometry is changed from 2010, probably for the better.

What makes you think that the new geometry may be better?
E25