Chain wear

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niggle
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Re: Chain wear

Postby niggle » 31 May 2011, 11:46am

georgew wrote:
niggle wrote:I don't trust the fancy chain wear indicator tools as they are affected by the degree of free play of the rollers, and can therefore over read for wear. The steel ruler method is completely reliable IME, change the chain when it has 1/16" stretch over 12" and the sprockets should be OK.


The tool is to be used while the chain is under tension. I think that this meets your objection.

No, not really: the rollers have movement ('float'?) in relation to the bushing/pins of the chain which will not be affected by the chain being held taught, but will affect the measurement given by a tool like the Park one as it bears against the side of the rollers.

Dan
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Re: Chain wear

Postby Dan » 1 Jun 2011, 11:18pm

I ride a Campagnolo Centaur 10 speed groupset. I regularly check (maybe not enough) my chain with a Rohloff caliber 2 chain checker, and due to a sudden surge in my milage (I recently joined a racing club) the wear has jumped from <0.075% to >0.1%. I have been to two bike shops and both of then have said that Campagnolo chains are now so hard wearing that they advise riding the chain until it starts skipping and then replace both chain and cassette at the same time.

Is this a widely held view thesedays? Or at >0.1% wear is it already too late to run a new chain on the block (there are no/minimal visible signs of wear on the sprockets).

My preference is to replace the chain in the hope of extending the life of the cassette and chainrings.

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Mick F
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Re: Chain wear

Postby Mick F » 2 Jun 2011, 8:02am

How many miles has your Campag chain done?

I use two Campag chains and swap them over every 1,000miles or so. Both chains have done over 4,000miles so far with zero stretch on either of them. I expect to get a further 4,000miles yet but I may change them before that.

When I was 9sp, my Campag chain had 7,500miles under its belt - again with zero stretch - before I went over to 10sp.
Mick F. Cornwall

reohn2
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Re: Chain wear

Postby reohn2 » 2 Jun 2011, 8:06am

I seems by MickF's experiences and mileage he gets out of Campag chains that they are indeed hardwearing.
I've replaced chains at 1% wear without problems on the old cassette or c/rings,but these are Sram chains not Campag and if Campag chains are that hard wearing ie say twice the Mileage of Srams then theres a possibilty the cassette is worn more too,if you follow my logic :? .
I know MickF gets something like 7,000 to 9.000miles out of his Campag chains but I don't know how many chains he gets to the cassette ,perhap he'll tell us?

I tend to use a steel rule for measuring chainwear these days as I've found chain measuring tools to be inacurate to a greater or lesser degree.
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reohn2
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Re: Chain wear

Postby reohn2 » 2 Jun 2011, 8:07am

Pipped at the post..........nearly :)
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fatboy
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Re: Chain wear

Postby fatboy » 2 Jun 2011, 8:30am

I use bog-standard chains and seem to eat them to the point that I've given up trying to make them last longer. However what I do do is to never ride with a worn out chain; the most important bit about this. I learnt this the hard way wrecking cassette and chainset (which meant new bottom bracket to get chainline right). I have a cheap park tool chain wear checker and chuch the chain out as soon as I detect serious wear.

I think that chain life is almost impossible to quantify. I think that twiddlers will wear chains out quicker than grinders IYKWIM. Changing gear more often will make a difference as will conditions that you ride in, whether you have mudguards, how often you clean the chain etc etc. My experience of chain life is that Ayara chains from Halfords are the shortest living ones that I've used, KMC second shortest, SRAM next and Shimano the longest lifespan (but even with me the riding has changed over time so this may not mean anything). I am currently using a Wipperman chain to see how they fair.
"Marriage is a wonderful invention; but then again so is the bicycle puncture repair kit." - Billy Connolly

Jonty

Re: Chain wear

Postby Jonty » 2 Jun 2011, 8:52am

I think the specification of chains and cassettes should be raised. The "industry standard" should IMO be something like 5,000 miles for a chain and 10,000 miles for a cassette assuming both are lubed once a month and occasionally wiped with a cloth.
Step forward British industry!
jonty

fatboy
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Re: Chain wear

Postby fatboy » 2 Jun 2011, 8:54am

Jonty wrote:I think the specification of chains and cassettes should be raised. The "industry standard" should IMO be something like 5,000 miles for a chain and 10,000 miles for a cassette assuming both are lubed once a month and occasionally wiped with a cloth.
Step forward British industry!
jonty


Trouble is that people desire stuff that has tons of gears and weighs nothing.............
"Marriage is a wonderful invention; but then again so is the bicycle puncture repair kit." - Billy Connolly

reohn2
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Re: Chain wear

Postby reohn2 » 2 Jun 2011, 9:01am

Jonty wrote:I think the specification of chains and cassettes should be raised. The "industry standard" should IMO be something like 5,000 miles for a chain and 10,000 miles for a cassette assuming both are lubed once a month and occasionally wiped with a cloth.
Step forward British industry!
jonty

Man stiffles hysterical(or should that be historical) laughter! :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Dan
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Re: Chain wear

Postby Dan » 4 Jun 2011, 11:09pm

How many miles has your Campag chain done?


Hard to say exactly, very light use until this year, probably <<1000km and no significant stretch [<0.075%]. Then this year 2000km, and now >0.1% stretch.

Dan
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Re: Chain wear

Postby Dan » 4 Jun 2011, 11:11pm

If you are rotating campag chains do you use "missing links" or campag rivets each time?

Father Jack
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Re: Chain wear

Postby Father Jack » 4 Jun 2011, 11:17pm

Not sure you can use missing links with official campag chains? Pin sizing different? Wouldn't mind Mirage bike has Campag chain, can't remove it..

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Mick F
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Re: Chain wear

Postby Mick F » 5 Jun 2011, 12:04pm

Some answers:

I haven't yet worn out a cassette.
I was 9sp and during the 7,500miles, I used two cassettes with different ratios and swapped them to suit my riding. I sold both cassettes. 8,000miles so far with the 10sp Double Chain Technique, but again, I'm using two cassettes.

I wore out many an individual Suntour Ultra cog, but in those days, I kept no records. I've only got maintenance/mileage records since modernising to 9sp in Oct 2004.

I use a KMC Missing Link for my chains. You buy Campag specific ones either 9sp or 10sp. When I was 9sp, I just broke and re-joined the chains for a few years before I bought a Missing Link.
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... 0000000000
Despite what the "experts" say, it's perfectly OK to break and re-join Campag chains. Yes, I know the pins are specially shaped and you damage them slightly, but if you're careful to get them back exactly correctly, the chain will have no ill effects. Missing Links make the job easy and foolproof, but it's not the only way.

I use a 39" steel rule to measure my chains. Over that distance you can see the slightest elongation. I do have a measuring tool and I use that too, and I await the day when the two systems disagree!

As yet, no wear on any chain since my records began.
Mick F. Cornwall

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meic
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Re: Chain wear

Postby meic » 5 Jun 2011, 12:32pm

I do have a six speed Uniglide which is coming up to 12,000 miles and will have seen out 6 chains. :D
I am only taking this out of service because I have other cassettes to use up.
I wonder how much longer it could go on for, it certainly has plenty of life left in it.
Then again it is Japanese not British. :wink:
Yma o Hyd

Dan
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Re: Chain wear

Postby Dan » 9 Jun 2011, 12:28pm

I took off my centaur chain and put on a new KMC chain, sadly it skipped on the 11 tooth sprocket under full power. So the centaur is back on this time with a KMC missing link.

When I measured the old centaur chain against the new KMC it had stretched by 5mm over the length of the whole chain. This gives 5/1370mm = 0.36%, well over the 0.1% recommended for replacement.

I am surprised that it went from <0.075%, (using my Rohloff caliber 2 go-no-go chain checker) to this after about 2000km despite cleaning and lubing it weekly and using mudguards through winter.

My next question is should I carry on riding it until it wears out completely, or replace chain and cassette now to protect the chainrings?

On the point about reusing rivets. I took care when using a chain tool to remove the rivets, when I checked the ends of the rivets that I had removed (to remove the chain and fit a KMC missing link) they were seriously damaged, the peened end of one rivet was pulled off entirely, the other had been effaced. There was also some visible distortion of the outer plate around the hole.

Mick F you write
it's perfectly OK to break and re-join Campag chains. Yes, I know the pins are specially shaped and you damage them slightly, but if you're careful to get them back exactly correctly, the chain will have no ill effects.
how did you remove and replace them without causing this damage?