sram apex gears

[wearwell]

6 months recovering from knee thing, now back on the bike. So how are the gears? Still crap but I'm getting used to them. Avoid SRAM Apex.

[ChrisButch]

. Avoid SRAM Apex.

Despite the decidedly mixed reception Apex has had since its launch, Sram themselves clearly think they have a winner: since the Apex concept (now rebranded 'WiFli') is now being offered as a wide-ratio option across their full range of groupsets, rather than the (relatively) low-priced stand-alone item it's been hitherto. It will be interesting to see how well this does compared with Campag's relaunched triple, obviously aimed at a similar market.

[cycleruk]

Having just read the whole thread for the first time then I suspect there is an issue with setting this Apex up.
My two pennyworth - Professional teams had a complaint that was sorted (?) out by inserting a longer section of cable & outer just before the rear derailleur.
If you look at Pro's bikes the rear loop between frame and RD is quite large. Not that this may be an answer but shows that there can be problems with the Sram system.
Obviously this was rear derailleur related which doesn't help with front changer problems.

I would also suggest taking the bike back to the shop and ask them to test it for you. Or if you know someone with Apex then get them to compare bikes.

[Brucey]

A chum of mine has a new bike with the Rival 2x10 setup. After a few tens of hours of riding, he likes it well enough that he is....

...planning to shell out for Shimano STIs, mechs etc...

Doubletap is not for everyone it seems, and he particularly dislikes the stiff, hit-and-miss action they have, even by comparison to 15-year old, bottom-of-the-range shimano units.

Personally I am far from convinced by the whole idea of a 2x10 setup. I have always struggled with the notion of a wide-range double (on an eight speed or more setup), because the chainline is usually heavily compromised in gears that you use quite a lot.

The Q factor argument is awkward too, because most modern chainset designs (with the possible exception of Campagnolo Ultra-Torque) appear to cheerfully sacrifice Q and chainline of convenient (for the manufacturer) crank-assembly techniques and chainring clearance enough for frames with fat chainstays. Every time I see a road double on a frame I like the look of, I take a look and there is nearly always about enough room for a granny ring to be tucked in there. At worst the chainline might have to come out 1-2mm. I therefore consider the Q argument spurious.

The weight argument is difficult too; a third, small aluminium chainring and the bolts to support it weigh stuff-all, (unlike some large steel sprockets) and long-arm rear mechs need be no heavier for a a double than a triple.

All in all I think Campagnolo are doing the right thing which is bringing back the road triple.

cheers

[reohn2]

...planning to shell out for Shimano STIs, mechs etc...

Doubletap is not for everyone it seems, and he particularly dislikes the stiff, hit-and-miss action they have, even by comparison to 15-year old, bottom-of-the-range shimano units.

I've never used Sram Double tap(but don't like the idea of using the same lever for up and down shifts).But I can vouch for Shimano STI's,STI's with a paddle behind the main lever that is and not the Sora type with a peg at the side of the hoods,that can't be reached from the drops.
I have two early(1997) pair of 7sp RSX STI's(one set with 80,000mls on) that are still incredibly sweet,totally predictable and reliable after all this time.

Personally I am far from convinced by the whole idea of a 2x10 setup. I have always struggled with the notion of a wide-range double (on an eight speed or more setup), because the chainline is usually heavily compromised in gears that you use quite a lot.

Spot on IMHO,

The Q factor argument is awkward too, because most modern chainset designs (with the possible exception of Campagnolo Ultra-Torque) appear to cheerfully sacrifice Q and chainline of convenient (for the manufacturer) crank-assembly techniques and chainring clearance enough for frames with fat chainstays. Every time I see a road double on a frame I like the look of, I take a look and there is nearly always about enough room for a granny ring to be tucked in there. At worst the chainline might have to come out 1-2mm. I therefore consider the Q argument spurious.

Agreed.
Though the cranked outward,rather than straight cranks of older pattern TA and S/light cranks suits me better TBH,as my inner ankle bones clear modern cranks better.

The weight argument is difficult too; a third, small aluminium chainring and the bolts to support it weigh stuff-all, (unlike some large steel sprockets) and long-arm rear mechs need be no heavier for a a double than a triple.

Agreed,again

All in all I think Campagnolo are doing the right thing which is bringing back the road triple.

Well it's about time! those crazy people at Campag(matched only by those increasingly crazy,different cable pulls for road and MTB groups,people at Shimano)came to their senses,Campag have been painting themselves into a corner for long enough.

And just when you think things are complicated enough,Shimano decide to increase the rear sprocket count on DuraAce to 11!!!
How long before the shifting cogs of time decree that all Shimano groupsets(see how I avoided saying gruppo's)are 11 on the back
Cogwars,someone should send a salvo across their bows,though I don't think it'll be Sram

[hexhome]

Feeling very smug Living in very lumpy countryside with a compact double I find indexed bar end shifters and a low normal rear mech superb. I can shift up or down the full range in one movement. They are easy to use from the drops or the tops. Light to operate, smooth and reliable. Oh, and they were about £120 cheaper than the alternative!

[wearwell]

.....
I would also suggest taking the bike back to the shop and ask them to test it for you. Or if you know someone with Apex then get them to compare bikes.

It's difficult because the problems seem intermittent. I do several rides with no prob, then out of the blue it starts missing changes. It performs perfectly on a stand and then goes wrong on the road.
Even when working perfectly (i.e. no missed changes or dropped chain) it's a fussy business; one click, two or three clicks, energetic wide swing from low to high on the front changer etc etc. If you can't hear the clicks (wind noise in the ears) or can't see the chain (eyes watering downhill in cold weather) then you'll miss a change and have 3 or 4 goes to get it right again, if you haven't dropped the chain in the meantime.
Basically unfit for purpose. Avoid.

[wearwell]

Feeling very smug Living in very lumpy countryside with a compact double I find indexed bar end shifters and a low normal rear mech superb. I can shift up or down the full range in one movement. They are easy to use from the drops or the tops. Light to operate, smooth and reliable. Oh, and they were about £120 cheaper than the alternative!

Absolutely! Thats what I've got on my Dawes Galaxy, except the indexing has worn out, but that's no problem they still change perfectly. I can even shift both levers at once and change effortlessly through the whole range in one operation!

[Brucey]

BTW I took a look at my chum's Rival-equipped bike this afternoon and it was pretty clear that the gear cables and housing were not of particularly good quality. I don't know if they were SRAM items or not.

Pulling on the exposed cable run to the rear mech revealed plenty of unecessary friction in the final length of housing to the rear mech, which a smear of grease on the cable helped a little. But better cables, properly prepared, would surely help more again.

cheers

[reohn2]

Feeling very smug Living in very lumpy countryside with a compact double I find indexed bar end shifters and a low normal rear mech superb. I can shift up or down the full range in one movement. They are easy to use from the drops or the tops. Light to operate, smooth and reliable. Oh, and they were about £120 cheaper than the alternative!

Absolutely! Thats what I've got on my Dawes Galaxy, except the indexing has worn out, but that's no problem they still change perfectly. I can even shift both levers at once and change effortlessly through the whole range in one operation!

Yeah but,they're in prime knee knocking territory,now if you'd said Kelly take Off's,I'd have given you permission to feel Reeeeaaalllly smug .
As it is,on the smugometer you only get a 5 out of 10

Whilst I,OTOH with STI's can't sweep the whole cassette at once,I can do three at once and three on the front in one go,whilst in or out of the saddle from hoods and drops,and brake at the same time if needed

[reohn2]

BTW I took a look at my chum's Rival-equipped bike this afternoon and it was pretty clear that the gear cables and housing were not of particularly good quality. I don't know if they were SRAM items or not.

Pulling on the exposed cable run to the rear mech revealed plenty of unecessary friction in the final length of housing to the rear mech, which a smear of grease on the cable helped a little. But better cables, properly prepared, would surely help more again.

cheers

FWIW when rebuilding the Santana tandem earlier in the year,I cut a looonnng short outer where it exits the rear mech ala Sram,the shifting is much lighter that way,not that it was ever heavy/tight but there's a noticable difference.I made a mental note to do the rest of my bike when they come up for cables

[gloomyandy]

Got Sram double click shifters on two of my bikes, one Apex, the other Red. Never had any problems with either of them and find the shifting pretty easy to use, certainly I much prefer it to the down tube shifters on one of my older bikes. Both bikes have a longish loop of outer cable at the rear (which I seem to remember the Sram technical manual makes a point about specifying the length of). Live in pretty hilly country (W. Yorks, one of my local hills is Holme Moss), so often have to use the full range of the 11-28 50/34 setup I have. So for me it is very fit for purpose. Sounds like there is either a fault, or perhaps some sort of frame/bike specific issue, rather than a general Sram Apex issue.

[wearwell]

Been off me bike for some time due to knee prob. But back now and seem to have sorted the gears at last. A lot of adjusting, running in and familiarisation probably help, but the biggest single improvement (i.e. not a single missed change or dropped chain since) was when I put on a new chain - but a 9 speed instead of the 10. That seems to be the answer. Come to think I've done this before in the past - with an 8 chain on 9 sprockets and had a similar improvement

[rfryer]

Interesting. I read this whole thread, thinking "Odd, I've had no problems with double-click shifters". I actually prefer them to STI, because the brake levers don't swivel!

But, the first thing I did when I got the bike was to fit a larger cassette, and a new (longer) KMC chain to go with it. Maybe that made all the difference?

[wearwell]

SRAM Apex probs finally over!
1 Replaced the double chain ring with a triple and a down tube shifter and triple changer (found one in my box). Much easier to operate than the SRAM brake/shifter but didn't have to replace it with an expensive Shimano unit and now have sensible set of gear ratios
2 The rear shifter/brake unit has broken and will have to go! It works over the top 3 (small) sprockets but no further. I'll have a go at fixing it but will replace it as it is obviously unreliable.

SRAM gear problems over - they've been a PITA from day one.