Older (70's 80's) road wheels.

[tramponabike]

Today I acquired a pair of road bike wheels from the side of someones dustbin. (yes I did ask) I think the bike they came off was a Holdsworth Elite. I would be grateful if anyone can offer any info regarding the quality and the likely age of these wheels.

Front - 36 eyeleted spokes (a lot for a lightweight road wheel?) Normandy hub marked p 27 80 (?) Simplex QR
Rim = Super Champion Competition (I think, sticker going)

Rear - 36 eyeleted spokes. Maillard hub marked A 12 88 (?) Maillard QR
Rim = as front.

The front wheel has what to me are standard cups and cones at each end of the axel but the rear has a normal cup and cone at one end but a deep nut running through the block on the drive side. I haven't inspected further yet but am I correct in thinking that it's to get the bearings nearer the hub. There is no lock nut on the drive side.

Both apear to have ally spokes judging by the light coating of white on them. Are these likely to be safe to use? The wheels are almost true but could do with a slight tighten up.

[thirdcrank]

What you describe as a deep nut is probably Maillard Helicomatic. A short-lived innovation which failed to catch on. Spares will prbably be a problem.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ha-i.html#helicomatic

[pete75]

Sounds like helicomatic to me too. Spares not as much of a problem as you might think - just buy one or tow of these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINTAGE-MAILLARD- ... _500wt_715 if you intend using the wheels.

The spokes are more likely to be galvanised steel rather than alloy. Galvanised can get a white coating as well.

[tramponabike]

Thanks. Just had a closer look. It is marked Suntour and dosn't have the multi splined lockring of the helicomatic as shown by Sheldon. It has a more Shimano looking slotted ring. The hub is definatly marked Maillard though. Could it be a Suntour "improvement" on the obviously dubious Maillard helicomatic design?

The drive side nut doesn't seem to do anything but provide a face for the dropout to clamp. It doesn't tighten or release the bearings nor any part of the hub. I assume all bearing ajustment is taken up on the non drive side?

[pete75]

That isn't helicomatic. Once you remove the block you'll find it's cup and cone and the drive side as well.

[Mick F]

I had/have one of those!

Suntour Ultra sprockets fitted on the freewheel a treat!

The two rings were adjustable so you didn't need shims to get the play correct. In fact, I still have the body of one in my spares box, but the adjustable rings won't go on because the threads are wonky.

With the correct spacers, it would take 6sp, and also 7sp with an outer 6th sprocket specially designed to take an extra one to make it 7.

[thirdcrank]

Sorry for the Helicomatic blind alley As i don't think anybody has actually made the point, what have is a Suntour freewheel. More bgeneral info on freewheels here:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/freewheels.html

[tramponabike]

No problem thirdcrank, you didn't have much to go on. Thanks for the links too. I can't search on Sheldons site at the moment. Google says..."We're sorry... ... but your computer or network may be sending automated queries. To protect our users, we can't process your request right now." ! Don't know what thats about but anyway...

Further confusion... looking through the spokes to the back of the block, the sprockets apear to be splined onto the freewheel!

Edit... Looks like five splines on the sprockets. Nothing else turns with the freewheel. No bulge on the hub drive side. Can't dissmantle as the lock is Suntour with two notches.

There are also the pair of two notch ajustable rings that Mick F mentioned above.
Difficult to explain and it doesn't show in the pic due to perspective but they look odd.

The top notch in the photo has both the notch in the inner ring marked "unscrew" etc and the notch in the outer, thinner ring almost perfectly aligned. However, the notches in the other side (bottom in photo but don't show as well) are out by about half a notch! (the perspective of the picture suggest the opposit but I hope that makes sense.)

At least one of the rings must NOT be symetrical, ie the notches are NOT at 180deg. They are also very small with the inner one on quite a bevel. What sort of tools do these need?

[gaz]

What sort of tools do these need?

That depends very much on whether you plan to do anything with the freewheel afterwards.

If you are planning to destroy it after removal then inappropriate tools will suffice although I can't advise which. Destructive removal techniques.

BTW it's quite usual for the bigger sprockets on a freewheel to be splined with only the smallest one or two threaded.

[hubgearfreak]

A short-lived innovation which failed to catch on.

it did, however, lead to the production of some nice bottle openers

[PW]

Suntour Perfect 999 body with ultra 6 sprockets I think?? Grief I'm old!

[tramponabike]

Thanks everyone.

I think they are worth saving. Just need a nice 70's frame to put them in now.

[Kaysbloke]

Some info here -

http://velobase.com/ListComponents.aspx ... 808932f299

http://velobase.com/ListComponents.aspx ... 2ab09941bc

Click on the photo of the item that is closest to yours and a dedicated page opens.

I might have spare Suntour remover - but I'll have to have a good search!

[tramponabike]

Thanks Kaysbloke, I hadn't seen that. Got the lot now.

Super Champion Étoile Competition rims
Maillard 700 Professional (low flange) rear & Maillard Normandy Sport front hubs
Suntour Perfect 999 freewheel
Ultra 6 sprockets

That remover will be useful if you find it.

[spanner]

the suntour perfect 999 freewheel isnt a helicomatic freewheel it is removed with a suntour two peg remover remove the skewer and fit the remover then refit the skewer and put the wheel in a vice clamping the remover and turn the wheel anticlockwise if it slackens then goes tight slacken off the skewer nut slightly then turn again and the freewheel will come off
once off the wheel clamp the freewheel in a vice between two bits of wood and use a chainwhip on the smallest sprocket and turn the chain whip anticlockwise and the sprocket will unscrew make a note of the order the sprockets and spacers come off (refitting is reverse order of coming off)
i bought a peugeot aspin last year and the rear wheel was a helicomatic hub and never use wheels with these hubs fitted as the bearings on the gear side is 5/32nd and the none gearside is 1/4" bearings i usually keep the spindle and skewer and bin the rest.
the rear wheel rim on the aspin was twisted so wasnt useable i took a pair of wheels off one of my other bikes(mavic ma2 alloy rims on maillard large flange q/r hubs stripped and cleaned the rims and spokes and serviced and polished the hubs and rebuilt them.
ive currently "borrowed" them for a dawes jaguar which ive just built up
whatever you do do not undo the lockring which has the anticlockwise arrow as this will reveal the pawls and bearings inside the freewheel body what i usually do is flush the body with wd40 or gt85 then soak the freewheel body in oil overnight then hang it up to drain off this is sufficent to effectively oil the pawls and bearings inside the body and will in fact silence the ticking noise when freewheeling ive done this with freewheels for years and never had any problems with oil bathing the freewheel body