patricktaylor wrote:Safety is relative.
Yes but thats not what I meant we are specificly discussing toe overlap and it relation to the safety of a bicycle,which matters, if not for all,as some can live with it,I suspect a significant majority of people.
In short,it matters safetywise,otherwise the OP wouldn't have posted the thread.
All bicycles are safe, or dangerous, depending on point of view.
but thats not whats being discussed,whats being discussed is if a bicycle is safer without TO which it clearly is,however small the percentage nothing is lost and everything is gained by not having TO.
I was just commenting on how the 'old guard' (I'm at that age too) tend to be snooty about new devices that don't conform with the old norms. It's natural. The younger generation is naturally more fashion conscious and I see nothing wrong with bicycle fashions, even if some bikes are more safe than others.
The vast majority is told what to think,if you don't believe that look at the present fashion for bright red hair
yes they have the freedom to do that but who told me it was cool?
If some bikes are not upto a reasonable safety standard then they shouldn't be sold IMO, TO is part of that safety criteria unless it is made clear that this racing bike or that "tight geometry"
town bike has certain,shall we say vices? then there will be accidents waiting to happen
The cycling retail industry does a great job in promoting cycling IMO. I'd hate to see bikes for sale with 'health and safety' labels stuck on - even ones with tight geometry
I'd agree but what else can be done to warn people about certain issues.ie; buy an extension ladder and theres a string of safety information printed on it, some of it seemingly sensible and common sense precautions and some not so obvious, but people still fall off them,this doesn't mean manufacturers should stop telling people of the dangers.
As for toe overlap, it's a matter of degree. A slight bit of overlap and you catch the mudguard when maneuvering occasionally doesn't seem such a big deal
But where do you draw the line? no TO IMO is safer than TO no matter how small,though I will agree if someone is aware of TO then its upto them to decide if its safe or not, for them
the problems begin when people find out whilst riding their new bike who'd never even heard of TO
- it hardly compares with bare electrical wires.
If there is so much that you get your foot caught between the wheel and downtube, I accept there might be a problem. But even then, it's horses for courses.
I completely disagree because you're level of riding skills may be high enough to cope but that doesn't mean everyone else's is,and as anyone can walk into a shop and buy a bike then ride off on it skill levels will differ enormously, its the unsuspecting that need protection either by clear concise warning or no TO,which is the better of the two?
PS, since when did fashion care for anyones's safety,hair dye,sunbeds,flamable floaty dresses,ridiculously high heels*,toe overlap,etc,etc.
* I have three daughters and six grandaughters three of whom are 19and twins of 18.I've seen enough of fashion to realise that its who can be the most ridiculous.