Is this tyre safe? Sidewall damage

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Neil Mc Ivor
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Re: Is this tyre safe? Sidewall damage

Postby Neil Mc Ivor » 6 Jul 2011, 1:15pm

I had an early incarnation of these tyres and within a few hundred miles they looked a lot worse.
The sidewall was covered in "threads". I was not impressed and 2,000 miles from home; however they lasted the rest of that tour about 1,300 miles then continued being used for another 2 years of commuting and cycling in general.
They lasted me well over 5,000 miles and still had visible tread but the look of the sidewalls would not have inspired confidence.(Importantly there were no holes through the sidewall and the inside surface was perfect.)
They have a very thin sidewall for a touring tyre I suppose that makes them light.

LollyKat
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Re: Is this tyre safe? Sidewall damage

Postby LollyKat » 6 Jul 2011, 3:29pm

Thanks again for your posts.

mark a. I don't know how accurate the pressure gauge is as it is about 30 years old, but 90psi 'feels right' for riding.

old_man I hadn't considered that light-coloured walls might be more vulnerable but looking around the various wheels in the shed I think I'd agree.

ChrisButch I'm interested that you had the same problems on your Thorn Audax. Did you talk to Thorn about it? What tyres do you use now? I am considering Ultra Gatorskins or All condition Armadillos at the moment.

meic If I'm sending it anywhere it is more likely to go back to Thorn, but if not you can have it!

Neil Mc Ivor I'm reassured a bit by your experience - still not very happy, though.

I will take some more photos and send them to Thorn to see what they say. If they won't replace it I'll patch and swap it for the time being, while probably changing to another model in the future.

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meic
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Re: Is this tyre safe? Sidewall damage

Postby meic » 6 Jul 2011, 3:42pm

The thin, light fragile sidewalls of the Paselas are both a sales feature and a weakness at the same time.

That is part of the reason why I dont use them for Audax.

On the fatter Paselas the pressures are much lower which makes the weakness of the sidewalls much less worrying. I mean worries of the tyre pressures forcing the inner tubes out through the gaps which can happen on any tyre NOT of some drastic carcass failure.

Sidewall damage is inevitable and I think that I want tougher sidewalls than that on my Audax tyres, not because of fear of carcass failure but to avoid making repairs.

I have ridden a long way with 28mm Ultragators and Stelvios* both of which are fairly nippy, puncture and sidewall damage resistant.

If you go down to 25mm you can get them in folder versions (for a price)
Or the 28mm Rubino Pro (Pro is the folding version not to be confused with the inferior Rubino) which is a 26mm in disguise and cheaper than the other two tyres.

For a much greater price you can have the Continental GP 4 seasons tyre.

For those who are seriously worried about sidewall damage, possibly riding on a lot of gravel paths there is the Ultragator Hardskin but that is quite a heavy tyre for the size.

*Stelvios have been renamed/replaced by Duranos.

I fully agree with 90psi for someone within 10kg or so of 80kg.
Yma o Hyd

LollyKat
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Re: Is this tyre safe? Sidewall damage

Postby LollyKat » 6 Jul 2011, 4:07pm

Thanks meic, that's really useful info. I don't think I want to go down as narrow as 25mm, and I am not bothered about getting a folding one except perhaps as a spare.

I think the Hardshells might be overkill, also the GP 4 seasons as I don't intend to ride this bike in extreme conditions. My daughter has the ordinary Gatorskins on her Condor while my husband has a Ribmo on the front of his Mercian - they both seem happy with them.

I weigh 55kg so maybe 90psi is too much - but the gauge may not be very accurate, and I find them comfortable like this. When the bike first arrived they were rock hard and did rattle my teeth a bit :D .

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BeeKeeper
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Re: Is this tyre safe? Sidewall damage

Postby BeeKeeper » 6 Jul 2011, 4:53pm

You spent about £1,000 on the bike (give or take a bit) and you are wondering about a dodgy tyre? Call Thorns and ask their advice. I would expect them to send you a new tyre for free.

byegad
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Re: Is this tyre safe? Sidewall damage

Postby byegad » 6 Jul 2011, 5:59pm

I'd junk it. If it really has only done 300 miles from new it has been in a storeroom for a long time. The tyres are the only contact you want to have with the road and the pictured tyre looks like the ones on my old road bike which had been on the attic for 20 years with the tyres flat in temperatures up to 45 Celsius.

However it constantly amazes me how experienced riders are unwilling to spend a few pounds to be safe. Or maybe I'm a over cautious!
"I thought of that while riding my bike." -Albert Einstein, on the Theory of Relativity

2007 ICE QNT
2008 Hase Kettwiesel AL27
2011 Catrike Trail
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LollyKat
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Re: Is this tyre safe? Sidewall damage

Postby LollyKat » 6 Jul 2011, 6:26pm

BeeKeeper wrote:You spent about £1,000 on the bike (give or take a bit) and you are wondering about a dodgy tyre? Call Thorns and ask their advice. I would expect them to send you a new tyre for free.


byegad wrote:However it constantly amazes me how experienced riders are unwilling to spend a few pounds to be safe.

It is rather a reluctance to buy into modern throw-away society. Those of us who remember post-war austerity can find it difficult to chuck stuff out before it is necessary. And I think twice before laying out £20 unnecessarily - it's more than "a few pounds" to some of us. :|

I'll get in touch with Thorn's and see what they say.

fivebikes
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Re: Is this tyre safe? Sidewall damage

Postby fivebikes » 6 Jul 2011, 6:53pm

Had some Panaracer Crosstown 700c x 28 tyres that went the same way after less than a year and a couple of hundred miles use. The tread was virtually unworn. When I got them up to pressure the sidewalls were badly cracked all the way round, not just on the standing point. These have black sidewalls, not the more vulnerable amber. Binned them for fear of side blowout and bought basic Marathons which still look great!! Have only bought Schwalbe or Contis since and have a pair of Vittorias from second hand wheel purchase. None of these exhibit the Panaracer problem.

Frustrating and as you point out £20.00 is a lot of cash to replace something that has had little use.

niggle
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Re: Is this tyre safe? Sidewall damage

Postby niggle » 6 Jul 2011, 8:25pm

I would take them back, I had 32mm Paselas for 3000 miles on a touring bike and they did not do that. They were very nice to ride on, light weight, had decent grip in all weathers and I only had one puncture. Only down side for me was that they looked rather scruffy due to the stained sidewalls.

LollyKat
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Re: Is this tyre safe? Sidewall damage

Postby LollyKat » 6 Jul 2011, 8:30pm

Thanks guys - it's good to confirm that there is a problem and that it's not just me. I'll get onto Thorns in the morning.

DavidT
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Re: Is this tyre safe? Sidewall damage

Postby DavidT » 6 Jul 2011, 9:50pm

I'd consider taking them back. I ride 28c Paselas (typically at 90psi) and will happily admit that the sidewalls are not their strongest feature. Wisps of loose thread seem to start to appear a bit too quickly to be honest. However there is a difference between wisps of loose thread and what you have in that picture. In thousands of miles I've not had anything develop as bad as that.

The sidewalls on the Pasela do worry me a bit - not from a safety point of view, but from a value for money point of view. However for me and my type of riding, they have been and remain, the best tyre out there. I like it's lightweight nature (therefore the compromise with weaker sidewalls?), tread pattern with good rolling characteristics, p******re resilience and price.

thirdcrank
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Re: Is this tyre safe? Sidewall damage

Postby thirdcrank » 6 Jul 2011, 10:08pm

The tyre is obviously hardly used - the lttle moulding bobbles are still there on the tread, which also looks completely unworn. OTOH, the sidewall looks like something dried out in the sun and the cracking seems to indicate a tyre left flat under the weight of a bike . I'm mystified. :?

PW
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Re: Is this tyre safe? Sidewall damage

Postby PW » 7 Jul 2011, 12:58am

You may have luck taking it back, but that cut looks like a knife blade to me. I've run Pasela TGs for 2,500 trouble free miles regularly, in 25,28 & 32mm and never had that problem.
If at first you don't succeed - cheat!!

niggle
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Re: Is this tyre safe? Sidewall damage

Postby niggle » 7 Jul 2011, 7:48am

PW wrote:You may have luck taking it back, but that cut looks like a knife blade to me. I've run Pasela TGs for 2,500 trouble free miles regularly, in 25,28 & 32mm and never had that problem.

Personally I think the sidewall damage looks like deteriorated rubber, i.e. perished. As for other sizes of Paselas, I would be interested in how the 25mm ones would work on my road bike, and I notice there are black sidewall variants, so am curious as to whether that is purely a cosmetic difference or if it affects performance and/or durability as well. CRC do them for £19.99 which seems quite reasonable to me.

byegad
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Re: Is this tyre safe? Sidewall damage

Postby byegad » 7 Jul 2011, 8:54am

LollyKat wrote:
BeeKeeper wrote:You spent about £1,000 on the bike (give or take a bit) and you are wondering about a dodgy tyre? Call Thorns and ask their advice. I would expect them to send you a new tyre for free.


byegad wrote:However it constantly amazes me how experienced riders are unwilling to spend a few pounds to be safe.

It is rather a reluctance to buy into modern throw-away society. Those of us who remember post-war austerity can find it difficult to chuck stuff out before it is necessary. And I think twice before laying out £20 unnecessarily - it's more than "a few pounds" to some of us. :|

I'll get in touch with Thorn's and see what they say.


I too am old enough to remember the 50s.

My comment wasn't aimed at you, it's a new bike and, from the photograph, the tyre isn't up to the job.

But there is a constant drip of questions on this and other cycling forums from new riders asking 'Is this (Insert bike part of choice) worn out? There is always a number of replies about continuing using the item until it fails. A failed tyre can be costly in damage to the bike in the ensuing fall, and the personal consequences can be fatal! Having had a major rear tyre blow out at 30mph some years ago, I can vouch for the former, but thankfully 'walked away' from the accident. Had it been a front tyre I may well have not been here. The cost of parts bent or broken in the fall outweighed the tyre by a good chunk of hard earned £s.

Having bought a Club Tour from Thorns some years ago, I'd expect them to give good service.
"I thought of that while riding my bike." -Albert Einstein, on the Theory of Relativity

2007 ICE QNT
2008 Hase Kettwiesel AL27
2011 Catrike Trail
1951 engine