Dawes Horizon frame - steel or aluminium

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SteveD999
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Dawes Horizon frame - steel or aluminium

Postby SteveD999 » 11 Jul 2011, 3:31pm

Dear All,
I've been offered a Dawes Horizon and wanted to know if the frame is the 520 steel one that I want, rather than the aluminium one they produced for a few years - is there a quick test I can do, ie is steel magnetic and the aluminium one not, or any simple test like that?
Thanks,
Steve

LollyKat
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Re: Dawes Horizon frame - steel or aluminium

Postby LollyKat » 11 Jul 2011, 4:10pm

Yes - steel is magnetic but aluminium is not, so take a fridge magnet or compass along. With a compass you can also observe that 531 is less magnetic than so-called hi-carbon steel, so it is easy to check if the whole frame including stays and forks are 531. Not sure how 520 compares.

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horizon
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Re: Dawes Horizon frame - steel or aluminium

Postby horizon » 11 Jul 2011, 6:57pm

It should say 520 on it if it is.
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CREPELLO
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Re: Dawes Horizon frame - steel or aluminium

Postby CREPELLO » 11 Jul 2011, 7:47pm

Except Dawes have had an annoying tendency to leave the Reynolds stickers off on some bikes.

Alu frames will have a bolted on rear mech hanger; steel - the hanger is part of the dropout.

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horizon
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Re: Dawes Horizon frame - steel or aluminium

Postby horizon » 11 Jul 2011, 9:37pm

CREPELLO wrote:Except Dawes have had an annoying tendency to leave the Reynolds stickers off on some bikes.



Like my 2000 Horizon. :evil:
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Malaconotus
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Re: Dawes Horizon frame - steel or aluminium

Postby Malaconotus » 12 Jul 2011, 12:48am

horizon wrote:
CREPELLO wrote:Except Dawes have had an annoying tendency to leave the Reynolds stickers off on some bikes.



Like my 2000 Horizon. :evil:


And my 1999 Horizon, which is 520 but does not say so.

fatboy
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Re: Dawes Horizon frame - steel or aluminium

Postby fatboy » 12 Jul 2011, 8:00am

And my 2004 520 steel.

Quickest check is look at the gear hanger, if it's shiney and bolt on it's an Al frame if not it's steel.
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horizon
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Re: Dawes Horizon frame - steel or aluminium

Postby horizon » 12 Jul 2011, 9:46am

Malaconotus wrote:
horizon wrote:
CREPELLO wrote:Except Dawes have had an annoying tendency to leave the Reynolds stickers off on some bikes.



Like my 2000 Horizon. :evil:


And my 1999 Horizon, which is 520 but does not say so.


Well Malaconotus you'll be pleased to know that it is actually 531 unless we have something mixed up here.

In fact AFAIK but I could be wrong, Dawes didn't use any 520 around that time. Before that it was 501 and the 520 is the TIG weldable version of it. Dawes seem to have split between 531 and alu and seems to have prevaricated over what their budget touring bikes should be made of (hence the swiching backwards and forwards on the Horizon).
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Re: Dawes Horizon frame - steel or aluminium

Postby Malaconotus » 12 Jul 2011, 11:09pm

horizon wrote:Well Malaconotus you'll be pleased to know that it is actually 531 unless we have something mixed up here.

In fact AFAIK but I could be wrong, Dawes didn't use any 520 around that time. Before that it was 501 and the 520 is the TIG weldable version of it. Dawes seem to have split between 531 and alu and seems to have prevaricated over what their budget touring bikes should be made of (hence the swiching backwards and forwards on the Horizon).



Really? I have got myself a bit of a bargain, then. I haven't ridden it much yet as I'm changing the stem and bars. (Having not used drops for a long time I found the standard drops much too low in either position.)

The seller believed it to be eleven or twelve years old and what little I could find on t'internet in relation to the spec (RSX 7 x 3 etc.) suggested 1999 was the most likely date. I guess perhaps Dawes could confirm from the frame number? And confirm the tube type.

Any idea why there was no 531 sticker when it is a selling point?

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horizon
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Re: Dawes Horizon frame - steel or aluminium

Postby horizon » 12 Jul 2011, 11:23pm

Malaconotus: what colour is it?

Generally the Horizon was 531 until it switched to 520 in 2001 or 2002 and then alu.
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Re: Dawes Horizon frame - steel or aluminium

Postby Malaconotus » 10 Jan 2012, 8:30pm

horizon wrote:Malaconotus: what colour is it?

Generally the Horizon was 531 until it switched to 520 in 2001 or 2002 and then alu.


Reviving this since I have now dated mine more accurately by the parts fitted, using this excellent site... http://www.fa-technik.adfc.de/Herstelle ... uppen.html. 1995 is the only year that the part numbers of hubs, crankset, front mech and shifters were contemporaneous, and more obviously the serial number is 95006558. So I have a 1995, royal blue, Dawes Horizon as pictured below. Is anyone able to confirm that, despite the lack of a sticker, Reynolds tubing was used, and what type it would be?
IMG_1042.JPG
IMG_1043.JPG

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CREPELLO
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Re: Dawes Horizon frame - steel or aluminium

Postby CREPELLO » 10 Jan 2012, 11:05pm

The Dawes stickers are of the early 90's vintage, which may have continued to 95, but they used another script style for a short while before they introduced what could be described as a classic script style from 97, till 2004 (on galaxys).

I don't know about the tubing, but would guess that most Horizons were built in cro-mo type tubes, with some exceptions (1997 stands out from observation). The forks were probably also foreign made cro-mo, being unicrown. Perfectly good stuff, but cheaper to make and would be a standard size/spec, unlike the frames. I was told this by an exec of Dawes. The frames were still hand built in Brum though, although unicrowns were imported for many years before complete frames were imported. I had a Dawes once of similar frame spec.

scrimp
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Re: Dawes Horizon frame - steel or aluminium

Postby scrimp » 12 Jan 2012, 12:19am

Is it not the case that the lugs may well indicate that the frame was not welded - therefore could well be 531?
i am not sure but I thought that 520 could be welded, and therefore, cheaper to make.
even the uni-crown fork is not a certainty as to chro-mo. I have some uni-crown forks on an old Dawes that still have a 531 sticker on them - very confusing.
BTW i don't think that alu frames would be lugged.
good luck - it looks like a nice bike from the picture

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CREPELLO
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Re: Dawes Horizon frame - steel or aluminium

Postby CREPELLO » 13 Jan 2012, 9:02am

scrimp wrote:Is it not the case that the lugs may well indicate that the frame was not welded - therefore could well be 531?
i am not sure but I thought that 520 could be welded, and therefore, cheaper to make.
even the uni-crown fork is not a certainty as to chro-mo. I have some uni-crown forks on an old Dawes that still have a 531 sticker on them - very confusing.
BTW i don't think that alu frames would be lugged.
good luck - it looks like a nice bike from the picture
The fact that 531 is not predisposed to welding should answer the question as to what the forks are made of. At least, if there is any sign of a welding bead, they'll be cro-mo. If there is a smooth finish and a build up of filler, then they would be brazed and quite likely 531. [Edit: or it could be bronze welded]

Also, the seat post size might provide an indication as to the tubing, although I am not certain of this.

Brucey
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Re: Dawes Horizon frame - steel or aluminium

Postby Brucey » 13 Jan 2012, 10:11am

I have a set of Dawes 531 unicrown forks. 700C with canti bosses, low rider bosses and a threaded 1 1/8" steerer. In the interests of science I scraped some of the paint off and they are indeed bronze-welded at the crown. I genuinely couldn't tell for sure without scraping because the beads were a bit 'ripply' a bit like weld beads made with other processes.

BTW it is not the case that 531 cannot be welded (the phrase 'not predisposed to welding' is quite a good one), however this this not the best use of the material and indeed there are better materials for such welding. None of this means that any welded fork definitely isn't 531... though it may do on a Dawes.

Imported forks usually have stamp marks on the steerer that give the game away; dunno if the Dawes ones are like this or not.

cheers
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