The one bike...

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HPFlashman
Posts: 117
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 11:13am
Location: Norway.

The one bike...

Post by HPFlashman »

Having decided to not poach further in this treadhttp://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=47667&hilit=long+haul+trucker, I thought I should air some ideas, ask some questions and generally make a possible fool of my self, doing stuff that may have been covered in other treads. Hopefully you`ll bear with me, as I drone on about the thoughts that have been running in my head since the spring. :)

Concept: I want one bike to rule them all... (terrible paraphrasing from LOTR).

IOW - one bike to take care of everything from the sunday trip with the family, via milk runs to the shop to cross country stuff on single tracks, touring if I so desire and cardio workouts on the road/the turbo in the winter.

Rider: Me - 43 years, did cycle much up to around 30ish, 6`8", 275ish lbs. Up to now, buyer of Off The Peg bikes - been let down on a couple of occasions and hence the lust for building.

In my younger years (back in the 80 early 90s) I used a Peugot 103 for everything mentioned above - still have it, but its not been on the road for the last 20 years or so - just been used indoors. It was bought new with lights, bottle dynamo, rack, stand et al, semi broad tires. I`ve also gained quite a lot of weight since I ran it outdoors last and there are some rusting that I`m not to sure of is just surface. Hence deemed non road worthy and not up for spending a ton on getting it repaired/fixed.

"Concept"/Thoughts: Would prefer so bombproof build as possible in ways of durability and financially sound.

Thought of parts: Surly LHT 700 frameset, they are coming out with a 64 cm frame around new year, with the possibility of getting it with either conventional brakes or disc brakes. I think I will want either one of these, must look into the discbrake thingy.

Rims: LBS - handbuilts as per adviced. I`ve thought of the possibility to have to sets of rims, one for/with broader tires for those tracks/woods outings and a second pair with thinner tires for training/turbo/road stuff. If this is neccesary I don know, but experiences from running MTBs with proper off road tires on the road told me that it was suboptimal to say the very least.

Handlebars: partial to seriously broad drop bars due to physical build of me. Standard MTB straight bars is much to tight and I get serious neck/arm strains running those. I also have herniated discs galore in the back, to the tune of 4 cracked discs, so taking as much strain off these as possible is essential.

I`ve though about the possibility of having two sets of handlebars as well, with a bit of tweaking and picking the right head set it could possible be doable to swap them, as to what use I`m planning to do with it ?

From way back then, I seem to remember some sort of friction shifters on the top tube/steeringstem that would possibly ease the handlebar swaps if they still are obtainable.

Drivetrain: Shimano, 24 speed of LX or higher variety - either butchering something from the ads over here or possible source NOS/used parts. 24 speed for durability, I`ve seen mentioned somewhere that it makes it possible to have a broader wheel and chains than the newer groups with more cogs. Havent gotten around to assess the possibilities of tinkering with the cassettes for the moment, but there may be possibilities for having options on these, if the two wheel sets idea is feasible.

No cleat pedals, no experience with these, other than a former colleague that needed kneesurgery after running those for a season. Also goes against the milk run part of the "concept".

Seat: dont know, but I have a hankering for a broad Brooks and could easily see myself on one of those sprung ones . This could also be a modular thing as they swap out easily enough.

Misc: Rack at the rear, permanently mounted. Panniers to taste. Other stuff as needed or wanted (handlebarbag, lights, locks and all the other small stuff).

So what do you fellows think ?
Would this be a good general purpose go anywhere - do anything build ?
Is there obvious glitches, seriously stupid stuff or should I begin sourcing parts for the build ?

And, yes - being a mature student, I do have to much time on my hands... :oops: :wink:
Best regards

Harry
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: The one bike...

Post by reohn2 »

HPFlashman wrote:
Thought of parts: Surly LHT 700 frameset, they are coming out with a 64 cm frame around new year, with the possibility of getting it with either conventional brakes or disc brakes. I think I will want either one of these, must look into the discbrake thingy.

That seems a good choice or a custom built frame from Dave Yates or similar.
Disc brakes rock! BB7's if you choose that route.
You may also want to take a look at the Thorn Club Tour frameset :)

Rims: LBS - handbuilts as per adviced. I`ve thought of the possibility to have to sets of rims, one for/with broader tires for those tracks/woods outings and a second pair with thinner tires for training/turbo/road stuff. If this is neccesary I don know, but experiences from running MTBs with proper off road tires on the road told me that it was suboptimal to say the very least.

Hubs Shimano LX,rims,Heavy duty off road etc= Rigida Sputniks or DRC ST19's,road rims Rigida Chrina's or DRC ST17's.
Spokes?,531 Colin will advise best on those.

Handlebars: partial to seriously broad drop bars due to physical build of me. Standard MTB straight bars is much to tight and I get serious neck/arm strains running those. I also have herniated discs galore in the back, to the tune of 4 cracked discs, so taking as much strain off these as possible is essential.

I'd go for 46cm compact drops.
I`ve though about the possibility of having two sets of handlebars as well, with a bit of tweaking and picking the right head set it could possible be doable to swap them, as to what use I`m planning to do with it ?

I'd forget that idea as its too much trouble changing them over,I'd stick with drops,I ride them offroad no problem.
From way back then, I seem to remember some sort of friction shifters on the top tube/steeringstem that would possibly ease the handlebar swaps if they still are obtainable.

Kelly takes offs:- http://www.kellybike.com/2nd_xtra_takeoff.html superbe,almost as good as STI's but better protected in a fall,can be used with either D/tube levers or just the lever bit of Bar ends ,and can be used with either road or MTB mechs.

Drivetrain: Shimano, 24 speed of LX or higher variety - either butchering something from the ads over here or possible source NOS/used parts. 24 speed for durability, I`ve seen mentioned somewhere that it makes it possible to have a broader wheel and chains than the newer groups with more cogs. Havent gotten around to assess the possibilities of tinkering with the cassettes for the moment, but there may be possibilities for having options on these, if the two wheel sets idea is feasible.

9speed drivetrains are just as strong as 7/8speed.
10sp chains begin to get narrow but I've no experience of them.



Misc: Rack at the rear, permanently mounted. Panniers to taste. Other stuff as needed or wanted (handlebarbag, lights, locks and all the other small stuff
).
Tubus, if you want the best,the rest is a personal choice.

So what do you fellows think ?
Would this be a good general purpose go anywhere - do anything build ?

Yep,the only thing I'd be concerned about is stand over height,especially off road.I recently checked out a Surly Cross Check as a rough stuff/winter/touring frame and found the S/O height was a marriage spoiler :shock:

Is there obvious glitches, seriously stupid stuff or should I begin sourcing parts for the build ?

Nope :) I'd go for a stronglight Impact triple or Shimano Alivio MTB squaretaper chainset as S/taper are far more durable than the other recent mickey mouse alternatives.
And, yes - being a mature student, I do have to much time on my hands... :oops: :wink:

Thats a given :)
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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james01
Posts: 2116
Joined: 6 Aug 2007, 4:48am

Re: The one bike...

Post by james01 »

reohn2 wrote:[I'd go for a stronglight Impact triple or Shimano Alivio MTB squaretaper chainset as S/taper are far more durable than the other recent mickey mouse alternatives.


+1 for the basic Alivio
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531colin
Posts: 16083
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: The one bike...

Post by 531colin »

Cautionary tale from another big man about narrow rims........http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=51737&hilit=open+pro
and http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=51686&hilit=+open+pro

OP for this thread is 6' 8" tall and about 20 stone by my math.
Does he need to worry about standover? I don't think so.
Should he be using narrow rims and tyres? I don't think so.
Its a fallacy that narrow tyres are quicker (apart from air resistance). A light, smooth, wide tyre with flexible sidewalls is the best bet, a big tyre runs at lower pressure to take the sting out of rough roads.....good if you have a dodgy back.
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: The one bike...

Post by reohn2 »

531colin wrote:Cautionary tale from another big man about narrow rims........http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=51737&hilit=open+pro
and http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=51686&hilit=+open+pro

OP for this thread is 6' 8" tall and about 20 stone by my math.
Does he need to worry about standover? I don't think so.
Should he be using narrow rims and tyres? I don't think so.
Its a fallacy that narrow tyres are quicker (apart from air resistance). A light, smooth, wide tyre with flexible sidewalls is the best bet, a big tyre runs at lower pressure to take the sting out of rough roads.....good if you have a dodgy back.


Thanks for the OP's size and weight,I was thinking from my own perspective :oops: with regards to S/O and rims.
So scrub what I said about S/O and stick with the wider rims and bigger tyres as Colin says.

Colin
Theres the question of spokes!
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Elizabethsdad
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Joined: 15 Jan 2011, 7:09pm

Re: The one bike...

Post by Elizabethsdad »

I really like the disc brakes on my Subway 8 and I also love the 8 sp Alfine hub gear - an alternative for you to consider especially if you looking for bomb proof.

Of course if I had the money I would be checking out the Tout Terrain Metropolitan with Alfine 11sp hub or even the Rolhoff
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531colin
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Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: The one bike...

Post by 531colin »

Spokes fail at the elbow bend (next to the hub flange) due to fatigue.
Brandt says the way to delay fatigue is to use a big strong (stiff) rim and "stretchy" (ie. butted) spokes to share out a load between the maximum number of spokes.
The fly in this particular ointment is the driveside rear spokes are tighter than the other side in a ratio of about 3 to 2. So the non driveside spokes run the risk of going completely slack (eg hitting a bump) while there is still tension in the driveside.....to even up the "stored stretch" in the spokes on each side, you can use unbutted spokes on the driveside, and while you are doing this (for a heavy duty wheel, at least) you may as well use 13/14 g single butted spokes, where the thicker hub end also delays fatigue. The rear driveside spokes suffer the most from fatigue in properly built wheels, as fatigue depends on the amount of static tension as well as the variation in tension as the bike is ridden.
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Ash28
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Location: West Midlands

Re: The one bike...

Post by Ash28 »

Could you save yourself a lot of trouble and buy a Dawes Galaxy, Ridgeback Panorama etc.

Ok no discs, dont like STI take them off sell them and buy whatever you want.
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meic
Posts: 19355
Joined: 1 Feb 2007, 9:37pm
Location: Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen)

Re: The one bike...

Post by meic »

Dont forget to have a look at cyclo-cross bikes, they seem to offer a good all round option.

My lightweight tourer which is also an Audax bike, is also sold as a cyclo-cross bike.
I havent a clue what the difference is (if any) between the classifications.
This bike is my "The one bike for life" and when I get old, I will replace the drop bars with butterfly bars for a more sedate type of riding.

Traditional "road" bikes are too limited because of a lack of clearance for fatter tyres.
It seems to make more sense to have that bit of extra clearance and then you can still fit racing wheels if you want to but keep the flexibility of being able to fit other wheels too.
The drawbacks of having this extra clearance are very hard to see if you are not outright racing.
Yma o Hyd
HPFlashman
Posts: 117
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 11:13am
Location: Norway.

Re: The one bike...

Post by HPFlashman »

Much good stuff in here now, fellows. Much obliged :D

Very interesting links and information on the wheels, valuable info and input to digest.

As to the frameset, I ended up with the LHTs due somewhat to availability, I must order it in to Norway and its easier to get the Surly OTP than going onto the MTM varieties by one of the British makers, and after what I can gather the Surlys are also somewhat taller due to some sort of "oddity" in the way Surly measures them.

I`ve seen it described, probably on here somewhere, a post where one chap bought a 58cm LHT after riding that frame size for several years by other makers, and no finding the sweet spot on it, measured it and ended up with a regular 60 cm.

I mailed back and forth a couple of times with them in regards to measurments, availabilty and so on as to the 64cm, and Eric, the fellow at Surly is 6`6" and runs a 62 cm LHT to good effect according to him.

Rohloff was if not in the plans, but considered, untill I actually checked the price of those, I like the idea, but really cant rationalise that kind of dosh for the moment. The Biking scene over here in Norway is made up of 95% MTB, with the rest split between hybrids, racers and what I think you call city bikes over in the UK.

Anyhow, much obliged for valuable input and perspectives. Every bit is appreciated. :D
Best regards

Harry
Valbrona
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Joined: 7 Feb 2011, 4:49pm

Re: The one bike...

Post by Valbrona »

Who wrote "disc brakes rock". Disc brakes usually suck because they often make the fitting of proper mudguards with stays not possible. Have you seen the Dawes Clubman?
I should coco.
andyh2
Posts: 404
Joined: 24 Oct 2007, 8:49pm

Re: The one bike...

Post by andyh2 »

Having 2 wheelsets route is a good idea if you want to easily and quickly change between road and off road tyres. If you're doing this it's worth using the same rims on each set, or the same hubs if using disc brakes, to minimise changeover hassle. Otherwise you might find that the faff saved in not having to swap tyres is taken up with adjusting the brake shoes, or calipers for discs.

If you want to use drops for on and off road you might want to consider Salsa Woodchipper, On-one Midge or Soma Junebug bars.
HPFlashman
Posts: 117
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 11:13am
Location: Norway.

Re: The one bike...

Post by HPFlashman »

Ahh - mudguards, I forgot about those, but they are an essential part of "consept". The 103 I refer to in the initial post came OEM with them, along with rack, one legged stand, bottle dynamo, front and rear light and was sold as a tourer here in Norway.

The off road drop bars have me interested, as they are seriously broad. Need to look into further into those kind of bars. :D
Best regards

Harry
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: The one bike...

Post by reohn2 »

Valbrona wrote:Who wrote "disc brakes rock". Disc brakes usually suck because they often make the fitting of proper mudguards with stays not possible. Have you seen the Dawes Clubman?


Yes I've seen the Dawes Clubman,a nice looking bike,how does it ride?
If we're talking about disc brakes how well does it stop in comparison to a disc equiped bike, especially in the wet?

We have a Cannondale disc equiped tandem it has mudguards and a rack that I fitted easily and neatly,there is simply no comparison to V's,canti's or caliper brakes.
Road BB7's have more feel(modulation) and outright stopping power than any rim brake.The fitting of mudguards and rack are a minor obsticle,(which is no problem at all if the caliper is fitted to the chainstay rather than the seatstay)that needs overcoming once,the rest of the lifetime of the bike is spent smiling knowing rain or shine you have powerful,predictable,positive stopping power with one finger and little or no rim wear,a definate plus for loaded touring.
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531colin
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Re: The one bike...

Post by 531colin »

Dawes clubman....biggest size is 60 cm, horizontal top tube, steerer cut short in the factory. OP is still 6'8" tall, with dodgy back.

I don't get "off road drops" .Last time I said that http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=32793&hilit=drops+touring&start=30 I was told that you should ride them so the usual hand position was on the drops....but that loses the benefit of a lower position for headwinds, so I still don't get it!
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