Trying Touring Tyres

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mike4.3
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Trying Touring Tyres

Postby mike4.3 » 18 Oct 2011, 10:27am

My road bike needs new tyres (plus winter is coming).
My currently tyres are reasonably slick racing tyres (700x25) and I thought about giving some touring tyres ago for the winter (again 700x25)... Pasela TG or similar.

Firstly, aside from the obvious grip advantages in winter conditions I assume this will allow me to stretch my terrain a little more onto rough tow paths etc?

Secondly, and the main point of post, how much impact does all this extra tread REALLY have when out on the smooth tarmac?
I assume it will slow me down a little on the descents but I'm very wimpy and almost consider that a plus ;)
But what about climbing? Will I actually notice much difference at all (especially sticking to 700x25)?

Cheers.

tatanab
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Re: Trying Touring Tyres

Postby tatanab » 18 Oct 2011, 11:29am

You almost certainly will not notice any difference at all whether climbing, descending or riding on the flat. There is no obvious grip advantage in the winter nor do your current tyres prevent you riding tow paths etc.

I tour, including cycle camping, on Continental 4 Seasons and on Michelin Krylions, both in size 25. This includes farm tracks etc. I also use Panaracer Pasela TG, and have done for many years. Some say that the TG has vulnerable sidewalls, I'd say that might be true because the TG is still a comparatively light tyre with flexible sidewalls which give a nice ride.

So don't expect to feel any differences, but if you are in need of a change then go ahead and try the Paselas.

snibgo
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Re: Trying Touring Tyres

Postby snibgo » 18 Oct 2011, 11:49am

Hmm. I find that tyres with a tread pattern (eg Schawlbe Marathon, Michelin World Tour) give a better grip on gravel than slicks, and this improvement is even more noticeable when they are not pumped massively hard. But running them soft noticabley increases rolling resistance on tarmac.

So for rough towpaths, I would use tyres with a tread pattern.

I dunno if they make a difference in snow. If I rode on ice, I'd get spikes.

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meic
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Re: Trying Touring Tyres

Postby meic » 18 Oct 2011, 11:55am

Can you really call any 25mm tyre a touring tyre?

I do tour on 25 and 28mm tyres but they are not touring tyres by any stretch of the imagination and none of them have any tread of significance, how can they on a 25mm tyre?
Yma o Hyd

tatanab
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Re: Trying Touring Tyres

Postby tatanab » 18 Oct 2011, 12:17pm

meic wrote:Can you really call any 25mm tyre a touring tyre?

I do tour on 25 and 28mm tyres but they are not touring tyres by any stretch of the imagination and none of them have any tread of significance, how can they on a 25mm tyre?


In the 1970s I toured on 27x 1 1/4 Michelin High Speed or Michelin 50s, neither of which carried any tread to speak of. There is an enormous scope to touring. To some it is putting luggage in a support car while riding the Alps on a super-duper pretend race bike; and to others it is riding across Australia carrying all your own kit.

I try not to compartmentalise cycling equipment. I pick what I regard as suitable parts for my particular use. I'd even use BMX parts on a race bike if it worked for me. mike4.3 would certainly notice the difference in riding if he were to fit heavy, very tough, high mileage tyres such as the endurance end of the Schwalbe Marathon range but would it suit his requirement.

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meic
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Re: Trying Touring Tyres

Postby meic » 18 Oct 2011, 12:44pm

I agree it isnt helpful to be constrained by those classifications.

So the issue is, to my mind, that at this time of year the roads start to get slippy with a permanently wet build up of leaves and other organic slime matter.

At this point the nice 1.5" Schwalbe Kojaks start to spin underneath me as I climb the slimy hills. If I replace them with 1.5" Pasela TGs or ordinary Marathons I get some tread with big enough lumps to get a bite on those surfaces (or even on some proper mud to a much lesser extent).

I havent yet seen a 28mm tyre with any tread that is big enough to get a bite on this sort of surface. The pasela TGs have a very different tread for 32mm and below which is pretty cosmetic to my mind.

I still ride those same roads on my slick 28mm tyres but I am much more secure on the other bike with 35mm or greater.

I am a fan of thin tyres and cant wait until summer when I get rid of the heavy Marathons.

Also the weight difference between a rugged Marathon and a vulnerable Pasela is so much that you can carry 3 Paselas for the weight of two Marathons. So you are MORE likely to reach your destination with Paselas than Marathons, if you can afford them.
Yma o Hyd

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CJ
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Re: Trying Touring Tyres

Postby CJ » 18 Oct 2011, 1:02pm

On a tyre as narrow as 25mm, a tread won't make much difference. Some difference, but not much.

The main reason narrow tyres are skittery on gravel is they're not in contact with many bits of gravel at once and with such force that they push them around. Whether that's acceptable to you or not depends on how you feel about random sideways movements of your wheels. Tatanab doesn't seem to be bothered by that, I will tolerate it if I have to, but other people I know are really spooked.

I see you're on a MTB in your profile picture. So you know what a difference tyre width makes. In mountain-biking, tread patterns can be just as important as tyre width, but the narrower the tyre the less differnce tread patterns make. And when you get down to 25mm, they don't make much difference at all.

You'll find that racers go touring on racing tyres and try to ignore the shaking they get on the rough and the sketchy handling on loose stuff. Meanwhile dyed-in-the-wool mountain-bikers go touring on fat tyres and just work a teeny bit harder (or go fractionally slower) on the tarmac. Between those extremes there is an optimum width and tread for the usual mix of surfaces one encounters on a route that is chosen to minimise not only the effort required (hence mostly tarmac) but also exposure to traffic (hence occasional gravel etc.).

A few lucky countries, France and maybe USA, have enough top quality and yet lightly trafficed tarmac for narrower tyres to become the cycletouring norm; whilst undeveloped countries obviously call for much wider tyres. But in Britain you've ideally wanted something around 32mm for as long as I can recall. Go back a bit further and 37mm was the thing to have and that's a more popular touring size in the rest of Northern Europe. I guess that's because they have more cyclepaths there, and cyclepaths do tend to be a bit rougher than roads. As traffic increases and road maintenance funds are squeezed, I think we will also return to somewhat fatter tyres.
Chris Juden
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Edwards
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Re: Trying Touring Tyres

Postby Edwards » 18 Oct 2011, 1:09pm

When I put 28c Marathon tyres on my wife's bike I did so for the puncture resistance (they were cheap). On my bike with 25c slick tyres I was quite happy, that was until we were on a canal towpath in some mud. She carried on and I stayed put with the back wheel going round and round until I had to put my feet down and walk.
I now have 25c Marathons as well and do not have such a problem. :D
I am not sure if I have noticed a difference on gravel but it sure does seen like it to me.
Keith Edwards
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CJ
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Re: Trying Touring Tyres

Postby CJ » 18 Oct 2011, 1:16pm

meic wrote:Also the weight difference between a rugged Marathon and a vulnerable Pasela is so much that you can carry 3 Paselas for the weight of two Marathons. So you are MORE likely to reach your destination with Paselas than Marathons, if you can afford them.

I am also a fan of light and supple tyres - in whatever width suits the task. I'd rather mend the occasional puncture than push two stodgy tyres the whole time. My current preference is Marathon Racer, which seems just as easy rolling as a Pasela but with less easily damaged sidewalls. And instead of an extra tyre I carry a 12cm square of strong canvas.
Chris Juden
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CJ
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Re: Trying Touring Tyres

Postby CJ » 18 Oct 2011, 1:23pm

Edwards wrote:When I put 28c Marathon tyres on my wife's bike I did so for the puncture resistance (they were cheap). On my bike with 25c slick tyres I was quite happy, that was until we were on a canal towpath in some mud. She carried on and I stayed put with the back wheel going round and round until I had to put my feet down and walk.
I now have 25c Marathons as well and do not have such a problem. :D
I am not sure if I have noticed a difference on gravel but it sure does seen like it to me.

I think a tread makes more difference on mud than on gravel. But a bike without clearance for any tyre wider than 25mm usually has other problems with mud!
Chris Juden
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Edwards
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Re: Trying Touring Tyres

Postby Edwards » 18 Oct 2011, 2:05pm

You are right CJ tight clearances and lots of mud is a no no . I will only ride short sections of towpath on a bike with such close clearances to avoid the mudguards getting clogged up.

I am not certain how much difference the tread makes on gravel, it might all be in my head. I just trust them a bit more and know I should not.
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar

Winkeladvokat
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Re: Trying Touring Tyres

Postby Winkeladvokat » 18 Oct 2011, 2:39pm

mike4.3 wrote:My currently tyres are reasonably slick racing tyres (700x25) and I thought about giving some touring tyres ago for the winter (again 700x25)... Pasela TG or similar.

Firstly, aside from the obvious grip advantages in winter conditions


Don't you mean "obvious grip disadvantages"?! I like my Paselas (in 28mm) but they're noticably slidier on tarmac than the racing rubber I have in 23 and 25mm.

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mike4.3
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Re: Trying Touring Tyres

Postby mike4.3 » 18 Oct 2011, 2:48pm

Thank you for all the advice.

I fully understand the point of going to fatter tyres in the first place but I don't want to take my road bike too far towards the "middle ground" and try to keep it set up for it's sleek road biking duties. I can just ride my Marathon/XC mountain bike is the terrain is a little more demanding.

It seems to me then, to summarise, if I'm sticking with 700x25s then tread makes minimal difference and the tougher tyres are down to choosing a personalised balance between extra weight vs puncture resistance, the latter perhaps been the most effective difference if I want to take in the odd towpath etc.
And therefore the term "winter tyres" at 700x25 is basically pretty redundant unless I fatten them up.

PW
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Re: Trying Touring Tyres

Postby PW » 18 Oct 2011, 2:53pm

Paselas are good in dry or summer wet when the water is clean. They don't like greasy road surfaces in the salting season and particularly object to damp moss under trees on country lanes. (Eyam Edge coming off Sir William down into the village anyone?).
The 25Cs seem to outlast other narrow tyres for P******* protection but in winter I always go up to 32C and drop the pressures slightly.
If at first you don't succeed - cheat!!

reohn2
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Re: Trying Touring Tyres

Postby reohn2 » 18 Oct 2011, 6:17pm

I've been riding Marathon Racers for a few months in 700x35mm folders (which come out more like a 32mm and weigh a respectable 375grms)I'd say the only thing the OP would notice on tarmac if he went from 25mm slicks to 30mm Racers would be comfort,he'd also notice a big difference on tracks/towpaths etc :) .
I can also confirm that Pasela's have vulnerable sidewalls.
25mm rubber is useless on the UK's terrible tarmac these day's IMHO
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