"PAUL'S" thumbies / "KELLY" take-offs for skinflints

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531colin
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"PAUL'S" thumbies / "KELLY" take-offs for skinflints

Postby 531colin » 27 Oct 2011, 7:04pm

I have often thought about Paul's thumbies or Kelly take-offs.....I don't think I'm particularly mean, but I just can't get past the price!

All you need is a bracket of some sort to get a fitting like the familiar down tube lever boss in your chosen place on the handlebars......

down tube lever boss.......Image

Thats an M5 tapped hole in the centre, the cylindrical bit is 9mm diameter, the square base has 12mm. sides. The 2 flats at the end serve no purpose with Shimano index levers.

Here are bits of downtube lever to show how they fit on the boss...Image

In the centre is the back of the lever, showing the "castellated" bit in the centre. To either side are the "lever boss covers" (it says here..http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/SL/EV-SL-R400-1883_v1_m56577569830609217.pdf)..which locate the centre bit of the index lever onto the downtube boss...on the left showing the face which engages with the lever via castellations and a rectangular tab, on the right showing the face which engages with the downtube boss via a 12mm. square recess.

So, to make up a functioning boss, I have found some useful supplies......Image

On the left, an M5 stud connector....this is just a long M5 nut, threaded throughout its length....by a happy chance the hexagon measures 9mm. across opposite "corners". Next is one similar, but ground down a bit.
Then we have an M8 square nut...by a happy chance the spanner flats are 13mm. apart....next is a similar nut ground down to 12mm. across flats.....see where this is going?
I wanted to drill the thread out of the nuts with an 8mm. drill, grind down stud connectors to fit, and braze them in to fabricate a boss...unfortunately, the only M8 square nuts I can find are stainless, and so hard I can't drill the things....

SO....does anybody know a source of M8 square nuts in mild steel?.....or anybody fancy turning some bosses? (its beyond me !)

I found some sturdy stainless brackets in the right size.....Image

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Mick F
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Re: "PAUL'S" thumbies / "KELLY" take-offs for skinflints

Postby Mick F » 27 Oct 2011, 7:18pm

THIS sounds like a good idea.

Kelly's look a bit daft and way out to me - and I've said so on more than one occasion. Far better IMHO would be to have friction/index levers actually on the 'bars, not stuck out. By having them on the 'bars, you could have the cables within the wrap of the 'bar tape.

Better still, would be to have the bosses - as designed - to fit directly on the brake lever inner sides.
Mick F. Cornwall


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Ash28
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Re: "PAUL'S" thumbies / "KELLY" take-offs for skinflints

Postby Ash28 » 27 Oct 2011, 7:52pm

I used to drill out broken high speed steel taps at work with carbide tipped masonry drills on a very slow speed so might work for stainless but I think you may need a pillar drill.
Or perhaps a small grinding wheel on one of these Dremel type tools.
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andyh2
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Re: "PAUL'S" thumbies / "KELLY" take-offs for skinflints

Postby andyh2 » 27 Oct 2011, 8:14pm

These look nice and not too expensive for those of us that are less handy;
http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/ ... -23-8.html
fit drop bars and flats too.
They had some here (but not in stock at the moment)
http://www.freshtripe.co.uk/Freshtripe/Drivetrain.html

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Re: "PAUL'S" thumbies / "KELLY" take-offs for skinflints

Postby BigG » 27 Oct 2011, 8:49pm

Mick F wrote:THIS sounds like a good idea.

Kelly's look a bit daft and way out to me - and I've said so on more than one occasion. Far better IMHO would be to have friction/index levers actually on the 'bars, not stuck out. By having them on the 'bars, you could have the cables within the wrap of the 'bar tape.

Better still, would be to have the bosses - as designed - to fit directly on the brake lever inner sides.

The point in having them stuck out - or rather stuck in - is that they then move in the same direction as they would on the downtube. To do this when mounted directly on the bars would need a mounting on the outside of the bars. This would be much less convenient for thumb or finger operation while holding the bars and would also be much more vulnerable to damage. As actually positioned, they don't interfere with the normal hand position yet are easy to reach. It is hard to suggest a more practical position. One alternative, however is to use normal mtb levers (indexed thumb-shifters preferred) near the middle of the tops. These could not be reached from the hoods or the drops, but could easily be reached from the tops where my hands rest for at least one third of my riding time, especially when climbing.

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Re: "PAUL'S" thumbies / "KELLY" take-offs for skinflints

Postby reohn2 » 27 Oct 2011, 8:58pm

Colin
I have an old 531 frame thats cracked on the headtube but it has downtube bosses on.If cut out with enough down tube either side either boss could be cut out of the d/tube with enough tube left on to fabricate something good 'n' tasty for Kellyesque type levers.Do you want it/them?

BTW I won a pair of Kelly's on Ebay at the w/end for £24 which I thought was more than reasonable.I'm sorry if I was bidding against anyone who posts on here.

Kelly's look a bit daft and way out to me - and I've said so on more than one occasion. Far better IMHO would be to have friction/index levers actually on the 'bars, not stuck out. By having them on the 'bars, you could have the cables within the wrap of the 'bar tape.

Better still, would be to have the bosses - as designed - to fit directly on the brake lever inner sides.

Mick you don't know how wrong you are!(I knew this agreeing wouldn't last :wink: )
If d/tube levers are mounted directly on the 'bars they interfere with hand position when on the drops and gearchanging becomes difficult on the drops too as the lever is back behind the operating thumb whereas Kelly's place the lever exactly where it is most convenient for shifting from either the drops,hoods or tops .
I may have said on here before,when we got the Thorn Discovery tandem which had them fitted I thought they looked a bit gimmicky until I used them...........
I've also said on another thread that they are a well thought out bit of kit second only to STI's for ergonomics,I can change gear in or out of the saddle from drops,hoods or tops.
The only thing I can't do is change gear and brake at the same time which is something that STI/Ergo's are superbe for.
Last edited by reohn2 on 27 Oct 2011, 9:15pm, edited 1 time in total.
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531colin
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Re: "PAUL'S" thumbies / "KELLY" take-offs for skinflints

Postby 531colin » 27 Oct 2011, 9:01pm

Didn't know Velo Orange did one as well!

I was thinking of maybe putting the levers here.....http://www.flickr.com/photos/steel-is-real/3427390187/sizes/z/in/photostream/

Got the reflexes for down tube levers, bar end levers, ATB trigger shifters, road STI and SRAM, another one can't be too much of a challenge?

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Re: "PAUL'S" thumbies / "KELLY" take-offs for skinflints

Postby Mick F » 27 Oct 2011, 9:11pm

Yes, Colin.
Excellent - Command Shifters. Forgotten about that idea.
Everything that Kelly's should be, but it the right place with cables out of the way.
Mick F. Cornwall

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531colin
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Re: "PAUL'S" thumbies / "KELLY" take-offs for skinflints

Postby 531colin » 27 Oct 2011, 9:14pm

reohn2 wrote:Colin
I have an old 531 frame thats cracked on the headtube but it has downtube bosses on.If cut out with enough down tube either side either boss could be cut out of the d/tube with enough tube left on to fabricate something good 'n' tasty for Kellyesque type levers.Do you want it/them?......


Yes please! If you would be so kind as to cut them out of the frame, I will un-braze the scrap of downtube from the back, then I can braze them onto a suitable bit of stainless and go from there. Will PM you my address.

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Re: "PAUL'S" thumbies / "KELLY" take-offs for skinflints

Postby rjb » 27 Oct 2011, 9:29pm

The square nuts are found on "roofing bolts" - places like toolstation, screwfix etc are useful for these. The stud connector is commonly known as a "connector nut". Unfortunately the square nuts come with the roofing bolts but they are cheap. :wink:
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Re: "PAUL'S" thumbies / "KELLY" take-offs for skinflints

Postby reohn2 » 27 Oct 2011, 9:32pm

Whilst we're on this subject I wonder how many people on here are interested in buying some Kelly's?
I seems to me that because(as far as I'm aware)no one this side of the "pond" stocks them what could be killing the idea of buying them is postage.
If I were to (like Colin did with the grease some time back) order enough,it maybe worthwhile,who knows we may even get a bulk buy discount.
If anyone is interested PM me and I'll make enquiries.
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Re: "PAUL'S" thumbies / "KELLY" take-offs for skinflints

Postby CREPELLO » 27 Oct 2011, 10:05pm

BigG wrote:
Mick F wrote:THIS sounds like a good idea.

Kelly's look a bit daft and way out to me - and I've said so on more than one occasion. Far better IMHO would be to have friction/index levers actually on the 'bars, not stuck out. By having them on the 'bars, you could have the cables within the wrap of the 'bar tape.

Better still, would be to have the bosses - as designed - to fit directly on the brake lever inner sides.

The point in having them stuck out - or rather stuck in - is that they then move in the same direction as they would on the downtube. To do this when mounted directly on the bars would need a mounting on the outside of the bars. This would be much less convenient for thumb or finger operation while holding the bars and would also be much more vulnerable to damage. As actually positioned, they don't interfere with the normal hand position yet are easy to reach. It is hard to suggest a more practical position. One alternative, however is to use normal mtb levers (indexed thumb-shifters preferred) near the middle of the tops. These could not be reached from the hoods or the drops, but could easily be reached from the tops where my hands rest for at least one third of my riding time, especially when climbing.

Ah, but you could be using bar end levers, in which case they would mount directly to the inside of the bars.

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Re: "PAUL'S" thumbies / "KELLY" take-offs for skinflints

Postby CREPELLO » 27 Oct 2011, 10:09pm

Actually, if you were to use bar end levers instead of DT's, you'll have the securing nut that fits into the lever body. That could (possibly) be used, mounted onto a band or jubilee clip, maybe?

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Re: "PAUL'S" thumbies / "KELLY" take-offs for skinflints

Postby 531colin » 27 Oct 2011, 10:52pm

CREPELLO wrote:Actually, if you were to use bar end levers instead of DT's, you'll have the securing nut that fits into the lever body. That could (possibly) be used, mounted onto a band or jubilee clip, maybe?


Unfortunately, you still need the 12mm square bit to anchor it and stop the centre of the lever turning. And I'm not sure I'm brave enough to potentially destroy a serviceable bar end shifter trying to make something thats not forced to work! http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/SL/EV-SL-BS77-1664_v1_m56577569830628723.pdf