frame geometry

[chesram]

I have been comparing the frame geometry between ridgeback panorama and dawes galaxy. Which one would give a more upright riding position on a 58cm size frame?

[CREPELLO]

The short answer is the one with the taller head tube.

The longer answer is that there are other factors at play:
*The available height of uncut steerer tube on a new bike
*The length of the supplied stem. A good bike shop should be able to fit a correct length stem though.
Also the option of a riser stem.
*Whether the bars are compact or more traditional drops. Compact will have less reach to the brake hoods
*Top tube length. Shorter length would appear to offer a more upright position, but beware those frames where the seat tube angle is steepened, effectively shortening the TT length. It's deceptive.
In reality, this is putting the rider further forward over the pedals - great for energetic riding, but not good for leisure cycling, putting excessive weight onto the bars. The answer here is to find a way to set the saddle back to an appropriate position.

[reohn2]

^ good advice

[Valbrona]

One indicator is the steepness of the seat tube angle.

[531colin]

there is also the possibility to consider that the "58"(or whatever) is a different "size" bike with the 2 makes.
I'm not saying it is, I'm not saying it isn't, but you need to check.
The 2 pictures i pulled off the manufacturers website look like they have different top tube slopes.....and of course the "size" is measured at the seat tube, and the saddle height is the easiest thing to change on a bike, and has the greatest range.
NB when they change the "model year" they may, or may not, change the frame design, just to compound the confusion.

I'll see if I can pull the geometry table off the websites, but I may need help!

edit...quite interesting seeing those 2 bike photos next to each other...they look about the same "size", judging by where the seat lug is relative to the carrier, but the Dawes has more slope. ....BTW, I know its not a base model Galaxy photo, I picked it for the size, I think the frame design is the same for all Galaxys, but please check!

Does the OP tell us how tall he is? the 58 galaxy is a big bike

[snibgo]

Placing 531colin's images one over the other confirms the seat tubes seems to be the same length and angle, likewise the down tubes, but the Dawes's top tube rises more so the head tube is longer. The Dawes wheelbase might be about 1cm longer, but that could be a photographic effect.

[531colin]

Placing 531colin's images one over the other confirms the seat tubes seems to be the same length and angle, likewise the down tubes, but the Dawes's top tube rises more so the head tube is longer. The Dawes wheelbase might be about 1cm longer, but that could be a photographic effect.

dr.jpg

I wish I could do that!....Can you get the geometry tables next to each other?http://www.ridgeback.co.uk/bike/panorama/geometry
http://www.dawescycles.com/t-touring.aspx

[snibgo]

Here's a prettier version, just because I can. Red = Dawes, blue = Ridgeback, purple = overlap.

[snibgo]

Thinking about the OP's question ("Which one would give a more upright riding position?"):

We can read too much into the photo-comparison. I think the camera position is lower in the Dawes photo (because we can see both sides of the bars, whereas in the Ridgeback photo one obscures the other). However, the Dawes bars seem slightly higher, so would give a more upright position (assuming the saddles were at the same height, of course).

But I reckon steerer tubes could be cut differently, or stems changed, to give identical riding positions.

[Ambler]

I'll add my experience, it may help.
I'm 6'1" and ride a 58cm 2011 Super Galaxy.
I researched the geometry and noticed that the 2010 ultra g seemed to have a different top tube length than the other galaxies.
For 2011 it appears all galaxies are the same frame geometry.

I agree the S G 58cm is a big bike and Spa fitted a different stem for me which shortened the reach and is also at a 45 degree angle so it's shorter and slightly higher. To get comfortable I still needed to move the seat forward a little. Bear in mind here this is my first drop bar bike and my ageing body can not be described as supple. My most comfortable riding position is with my hand on the straight part of the bars and I have fitted extra Tektro brake levers to the straight part (as supplied with the ridgeback).

Ride both if you can.

[chesram]

Thanks all-some interesting answers and fantastic illustrations! BTW i am 6`0" tall, guy at the bike shop advised a 56 or 58 frame, with more leeway for an upright position on the 58. Also, the next size down on the galaxy from a 58 is a 53.

[531colin]

Thanks all-some interesting answers and fantastic illustrations! BTW i am 6`0" tall, guy at the bike shop advised a 56 or 58 frame, with more leeway for an upright position on the 58. Also, the next size down on the galaxy from a 58 is a 53.

Generally, the trade-off is this....
Big frame = high bars
Small frame = bars closer to saddle

So its not as straightforward as it could be!

The big frame loses its high bars advantage if the fork steerer is cut to the same length on both sizes!

[Ambler]

Yes I felt I needed a 56 cm galaxy. 53cm was definitely too small.

[531colin]

http://media.raleigh.co.uk/catalogues/raleigh/Raleigh-Road-2011/index.html

well, thats quite pathetic , just one out of three.
This guy http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=58022 wants sizing info. on the raleigh.
ridgeback is here, it won't play nice for me.http://www.ridgeback.co.uk/bike/panorama/geometry

come on you computer people, paste 'em up for us?

[Malaconotus]

come on you computer people, paste 'em up for us?

All three bikes in one spreadsheet. Results when you sort on effective top tube rather than frame sizing are interesting. The Ridgeback is a little odd, and must ride quite differently in different sizes...