Hub Gears and Trailers

[Tigerbiten]

Its all about how much torque you put through the hub when climbing a given hill.
I find once I drop below around about a 20" gear on the recumbent trike, its so easy the get wheel slip behind on a hill if the roads wet/greasy.
To stop the wheel slip I need to drop into an ultra low gear, Sub 12", and climb the hill that much much slower.

Rohloff state is their gear blurb "If mounted on a tandem or if the rider weighs over 100kg, the following sprocket ratios must not be undercut: 34/13, 38/15, 40/16, 42/17".

[GrahamNR17]

I suspect that only time will tell. Certainly an AW on a solo machine, ie with no trailer, will haul the huge bulk of our own dear Greybeard up hill and down dale for many many years, and show no signs of falling to bits. Me and my trailer full of shopping weigh about the same as him I routinely tow a 38kg dog on a 15kg trailer with an X-RD3 and on another bike with an AW, and three years in it's fine.

Pashley's advice about not towing a trailer can be ignored, in the same way that my shirt label that says "dry clean only" can be. It's just manufacturers covering their behinds, and Pashley are famously wishy-washy when it comes to specific technical questions

For really huge loads, such as those you might expect to lug on a Bakfiets (long), there are/have been specific cargo hubs that are beefed-up. The one remaining in production is the SRAM P5 Cargo, and in the past Sturmey have done specific beefy models for tandems. These days cargo hubs are hard to find; makes you wonder if they're just not needed.

But most hubs gears that I've encountered survive perfectly well with trailers. My suspicion is that they won't explode with loads that most people are capable of hauling.

It would be genuinely and properly interesting though to hear if someone has damaged a hub gear hub lugging heavy loads, as I'd really like to see what happens to them

oh, and the reason we aren't here that much is that the Toggle thread got a bit crowded, so we have a separate side-forum to do it in finer detail. I still haunt this place regularly in case something catches my eye. I couldn't live without at least a weekly dose of this forum

[Edwards]

Wow I was not expecting this kind of response. I have missed the Toglechain bunch this last month. It is a great thread with the correct mix of info and fun (Shame the info is hard to find now). I do remember reading that some of the hub gears are not as strong as others.

Back on topic I did not know that there were cargo versions of hub gears made. But thanks to the above thread knew that there was a recommended lowest gear ratio.
I am wondering if the push pull of the trailer as opposed to having the load on the bike would have been taken into account by the manufacturers? The reasoning behind this is stopping pedaling to change gear and the more frequent pulsing of a trailer?

[corshamjim]

Even a load in panniers on the bike will, in effect, push you down hills and pull you back from climbing up them. I really don't think that is significantly different with a trailer, although if there is any slack in the system it can be more noticeable. The freewheel takes care of anything pushing, so it's only really pulling you need to be concerned with.

My feeling is that so long as whatever you do doesn't involve stomping heavily on the pedals to make any headway then most hub gears will be quite happy.

[Valbrona]

Back on topic I did not know that there were cargo versions of hub gears made. But thanks to the above thread knew that there was a recommended lowest gear ratio.

Yup. And the SRAM P5 Cargo, as mentioned by GrahamNR17, is one. It is my guess that this is not a 'normal' hub gear just made with lower ratios. Instead, I think it likely that the design/construction/materials might differ. Not sure if it is made now.

[GrahamNR17]

All in the name of science, you understand

X-RD3, 1st gear, wheel locked with wood and rope, five-foot pole over the crank arm, hefty bloke swinging on the pole.

Not sure what it proves, but it passed an hour at work today

[hubgearfreak]

nice, but who's got a 5foot crank?

it'd be an interesting experiment to get a heavy man and a steep hill and see what you need to put in the trailer before slippage occurs. without a crossbar, unless you're a sadist.

you could re-create the hill with scaffolding planks

[JohnCKirk]

I've used a trailer with my Brompton (hub gears) and that works fine. The Brompton manual says that it has a maximum load of 110 kg, including 10 kg on the front carrier block. I'm not sure whether any towing weight is included in that, but I generally use the trailer for stuff that's bulky and light, e.g. taking empty plastic bottles to the recycling depot.

[Mick F]

In this month's Cycle, there's a question about trailers vs panniers.
I take issue with the last part of the answer by "Dan".

I paraphrase:
If you're using a trailer for B+B touring, you're definitely taking too much!

Sorry, but that's either a load of tosh or Dan hasn't put his point across very well.

The great thing about trailers is that you can put as little or as much as you want on them, and you aren't restricted to shape and size of the stuff you carry. I use a aluminium box on mine, and it's so easy to lower plazzy bags of things into it, you don't have to worry about which pannier has what in it, and you aren't worried about packing economically.

Trailers don't need to carry heavy loads, IMHO they are better than panniers - but that's another thread.

[[XAP]Bob]

In this month's Cycle, there's a question about trailers vs panniers.
I take issue with the last part of the answer by "Dan".

I paraphrase:
If you're using a trailer for B+B touring, you're definitely taking too much!

Sorry, but that's either a load of tosh or Dan hasn't put his point across very well.

The great thing about trailers is that you can put as little or as much as you want on them, and you aren't restricted to shape and size of the stuff you carry. I use a aluminium box on mine, and it's so easy to lower plazzy bags of things into it, you don't have to worry about which pannier has what in it, and you aren't worried about packing economically.

Trailers don't need to carry heavy loads, IMHO they are better than panniers - but that's another thread.

Although I think his view is that B&B touring should be superlight weight. What do you need? A spare pair of socks, undies and T-shirt. A normal toolkit. At that point a saddle/bar bag should be more than enough....

[Mick F]

That's what I'm getting at.
He said "definitely" taking too much.

I've been away three weeks B+B touring on more than one occasion, and I don't know about other people, but I cannot live with just A spare pair of socks, undies and T-shirt. A normal toolkit.

What about going out in the evening in "civvies", keeping a blog going, maps, cameras, phone, various pairs of glasses, bicycle spare parts, tubes, a spare tyre, binoculars, wet weather gear, snacks and nosh ............... the list isn't endless, but one cannot say DEFINITELY taking too much when you use a trailer.

[[XAP]Bob]

That's what I'm getting at.
He said "definitely" taking too much.

I've been away three weeks B+B touring on more than one occasion, and I don't know about other people, but I cannot live with just A spare pair of socks, undies and T-shirt. A normal toolkit.

What about going out in the evening in "civvies", keeping a blog going, maps, cameras, phone, various pairs of glasses, bicycle spare parts, tubes, a spare tyre, binoculars, wet weather gear, snacks and nosh ............... the list isn't endless, but one cannot say DEFINITELY taking too much when you use a trailer.

Oh I agree. Hows about going with two kids
Not something I've tried btw.

[corshamjim]

I don't even own a 'tourer' bicycle. I can't see the point when it's so easy to sling everything in the trailer, hitch up and go.