'Guards with racks - quicky

[DaveP]

I've just fitted mudguards to my bike. I only have a single set of eyes on the rear drop outs, and naturally the mudguard stays have had to go between the rack legs and the frame. I've done this before, many times, with no problems. I'm rather conscious this time of the distance between the rack legs and the eye. The difference now is that I'm planning to use the rack on a tour rather than for carting the odd bit of shopping. Is it ok like this? If not the 'guards will have to go

Is there anything like a mini P-clip to fit onto rack legs?

[speedsixdave]

Yip, P-clips are what you want. Should be available from your LBS. If not try here:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Parent-P-Clip-Rubber-Coated--per-pair--Black-5058.htm

But could you not put the rack legs on the inside and the mudguard stays outside?

d.

[DaveP]

Looking at it again, then Yes, I probably could. However, the ends of the mudguard stays are only bent wire and I can imagine them splaying open and leaving everything loose. I guess, basically, I dont like the idea of having them on the same bolt at all - it just took me a while to realise.
P clips are so ugly though! I'm going to look at the possibility of fastening them to the rack somehow.

[Kentish Man]

Hello Dave P
years ago when frames were made with only one pair of eyes on the rear dropouts, we just got on with it and had no problems. You may find it helps if you put the 'vertical' mudguard stay nearest the frame, then the carrier leg, and finally the 'horizontal(ish)' stay on the outside. Could also help if you put longer bolts or screws on so that you can fit a washer and locking nut behind the eye. If on the offside this is likely to foul the chain when in top gear, feed the bolt / screw through from inside the frame: on two of my bikes I had to file the screw head down by half to get sufficient clearance, but suffered no problems.

Finally, carry a couple of spare bolts / screws, washers and nuts in your tool kit, just in case.

[ianr1950]

I wrapped a small cable tie just above where the mudguard stays are bent to form the eye for where the bolt goes through. This stops the stays springing out. I also use a slightly larger washer, a longer bolt and bolt the rack leg outside the mudguard stay. If you try to put either of these inside the eyelet it could possibly foul the chain depending on what clearance there is.
I have toured with full panniers like this and not had any problems.

[PW]

Carrier leg next to the frame where it exerts least leverage on the mounting bolt. Use a long bolt & a couple of strong washers both to stop the 'guard eye spreading and to soak up some thread so the bolt on the drive side doesn't foul the chain.

[DaveP]

Well if you're quite sure - I'll arrange a trip to the washer shop!
Thanks!

[CJ]

Agree with PW, always snug the carrier leg against the frame. Those 5mm screws are borderline big enough anyway, notorious for rattling loose, and will do so all the more easily if you give the carrier load any extra leverage.

Sometimes the carrier then gets in the way of the vertical-ish mudguard stay, in which case I put a kink in the bottom of this stay so it ducks under and inward then up into the clear. (Even when it doesn't actually get in the way, this stay will often lay against the carrier and rattle annoyingly, in which case likewise give it a kink to create clearance and silence.)

Another tip: the better (European) designs of carrier have a fitting for a rear lamp/reflector, from which it is also possible to suspend the mudguard, doing away with the near-vertical stay and substituting a much shorter and hence more stable stay support from above. On the continent it is possible to buy such a stay set ready-made. Of course one is never offered such practical touring refinements in Little Blighty, so I snip one leg off each of the ususal V-shaped stays and bend the resulting length of wire to an appropriate shape. Other advantages are a small weight saving and avoidance of confict between this stay and the carrier leg etc.

[speedsixdave]

Another tip: the better (European) designs of carrier have a fitting for a rear lamp/reflector, from which it is also possible to suspend the mudguard, doing away with the near-vertical stay and substituting a much shorter and hence more stable stay support from above.

Now that sounds a good idea, CJ. Any chance of a picture?

d.[/code]

[DaveP]

Well it took absolutely ages but I did manage to get them both fitted - rack next to the frame, of course! I found that I did have to divert the mudguard stays around the rack leg, and I was dead chuffed to find, after the dust had settled, and the cursing was only a memory, that both sides looked the same - makes it all worth while - nearly!
I'm not sure if I'm going to stick with my current rack. When the decision has been made I think I will give some thought to ways of attaching the guard directly to the rack. I like your suggestion, but I can't see it working for both stays, the end of the guard wouldnt have adequate lateral support.
I tracked down my original half remembered idea. The Thorn Ultralight rack has eyes on the legs for mudguard stays. The rack is quite pricy and apparently not very robust but this feature seems to be a good'un. With a bit of luck I'll manage to fabricate some sort of miniature P clip.
Its quite strange that I dont mind the thought of doing this but the thought of attaching clips to my frame fills me with dismay. I think it's a throw back to the seventies when you used to see bikes liberally peppered with clips and bands for racks, cables, pumps, shifters etc. New and shiny one week, and rusty the next!

[Bicycler]

Sorry for the mighty thread resurrection but I was interested in this comment by CJ

Another tip: the better (European) designs of carrier have a fitting for a rear lamp/reflector, from which it is also possible to suspend the mudguard, doing away with the near-vertical stay and substituting a much shorter and hence more stable stay support from above. On the continent it is possible to buy such a stay set ready-made. Of course one is never offered such practical touring refinements in Little Blighty, so I snip one leg off each of the ususal V-shaped stays and bend the resulting length of wire to an appropriate shape. Other advantages are a small weight saving and avoidance of confict between this stay and the carrier leg etc.

Can anybody supply a photograph of such a setup or a link to this type of stay set?

[Brucey]

at risk of pointing out the obvious (as usual...?) but whilst there are any number of ways of attaching a rack to the mudguards (and IMHO the French may have done this best for years), this is only of the slightest value if you know 100% for sure that you will never, ever want to use the bike with mudguards and no rack fitted.

cheers

[Bicycler]

Cheers for that Brucey. I'm afraid I know zilch about French bikes and a Google search isn't coming up with anything relevant. Could you find a picture or describe what the French do?

[Brucey]

this is more or less the kind of thing I was thinking of;



- take the rack off, and the mudguard will break at the stays....

Note that the rack is designed to be fitted at a specific height above a wheel of a specific size, so that a mudguard can be bolted to it directly.

cheers

[Bicycler]

Ah, I see. Thanks for that Brucey