Tubus Tara prob/ Dawes Sadar (steel frame) forks

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LowPlainsDrifter
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Tubus Tara prob/ Dawes Sadar (steel frame) forks

Postby LowPlainsDrifter » 26 Mar 2012, 8:11pm

Hi, I just got a Tubus lo-rider Tara for my Sadar. Are there any other Sadar riders with a Tara on the forks?
My bottom mounting point bracket interferes with the fork tube (just above the drop out),with the forks being so thick. :(
I dont really want to grind anything off the bracket plate but may have to as at the moment its hitting the fork. Neither do I want to force it out away further by putting a bigger spacer in as it'll have to go out a way and this is going to compromise the strength then on a longer spindly screw/bolt fixing point. :x
Just wondered if any other Sadar riders have this prob with the Tubus mount?
cheers. Mart.
zero population growth.
no to the rat race thanks.

Brucey
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Re: Tubus Tara prob/ Dawes Sadar (steel frame) forks

Postby Brucey » 26 Mar 2012, 9:19pm

if you use a spacer, how thick would it have to be?

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LowPlainsDrifter
Posts: 185
Joined: 23 May 2007, 4:12pm
Location: E. Yorks.

Re: Tubus Tara prob/ Dawes Sadar (steel frame) forks

Postby LowPlainsDrifter » 26 Mar 2012, 11:01pm

Brucey wrote:if you use a spacer, how thick would it have to be?

cheers

I'd have to have a proper look tomorrow but I'm already using the spacer which comes with the carrier but I didn't want to make another as as it is I dont like the idea of a spindly little 4 or 5mm allen screw sat out even farther holding all that weight (of full pannier). Its just part of the corner edge of the bracket which hits the fork leg so I would rather grind that down but am loath to do so after spending good money on something then have to bodge once more.
zero population growth.

no to the rat race thanks.

Brucey
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Re: Tubus Tara prob/ Dawes Sadar (steel frame) forks

Postby Brucey » 26 Mar 2012, 11:57pm

a spacer isn't a 'bodge' if it is done properly.

However, grinding (possibly safety critical) bits off your bike probably is.

There are spacers all over your bike that are just fine; what on earth makes you think that this one is going to be very much different?

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

clandyfield
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Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 8:43am

Re: Tubus Tara prob/ Dawes Sadar (steel frame) forks

Postby clandyfield » 26 Mar 2012, 11:57pm

I'm intrigued!

Looking at this photo of a Sardar:
http://www.bikeradar.com/gallery/articl ... 15?img=1#3

coupled with the Tubus mounting instructions here:

http://www.tubus.com/product.php?xn=16
(especially the diagram of the front wheel setup)

I can't see how grinding anything off would be necessary if you are using the front part of the lower bracket.

I can see how the fork thickness would cause a problem as the tubus has to cross it to meet with the fixing hole.

My take would be that spacing it out as necessary would be perfectly OK as the bottom fixing would be "in shear" load wise, and a 5mm bolt would be more than adequate to support 8Kg load - but I always take a few spare bolts for my tubus racks just in case!!

Hope you can sort it without grinding!!

Brucey
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Re: Tubus Tara prob/ Dawes Sadar (steel frame) forks

Postby Brucey » 27 Mar 2012, 12:36am

The lower mounting bolt isn't even taking half the weight of the pannier provided the rearward pannier clip is behind the fork blade.

If you are really concerned, I guess you could have an additional bracket or eye added to your forks on the outside edge, or make a bracket to bring the carrier slightly away from the fork sideways....

BTW even a tiny M5 screw needs about one tonne to break it if it is high tensile strength, and a good spacer (stiff metal, not plastic... as large diameter as possible) will keep the cyclic bending loads down so fatigue shouldn't be a big issue.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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CREPELLO
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Re: Tubus Tara prob/ Dawes Sadar (steel frame) forks

Postby CREPELLO » 27 Mar 2012, 10:18am

clandyfield wrote:I'm intrigued!

Looking at this photo of a Sardar:
http://www.bikeradar.com/gallery/articl ... 15?img=1#3

coupled with the Tubus mounting instructions here:

http://www.tubus.com/product.php?xn=16
(especially the diagram of the front wheel setup)

I can't see how grinding anything off would be necessary if you are using the front part of the lower bracket.

I can see how the fork thickness would cause a problem as the tubus has to cross it to meet with the fixing hole.

My take would be that spacing it out as necessary would be perfectly OK as the bottom fixing would be "in shear" load wise, and a 5mm bolt would be more than adequate to support 8Kg load - but I always take a few spare bolts for my tubus racks just in case!!

Hope you can sort it without grinding!!

My reading of this is that The OP describes their Sardar as a STEEL FRAME, therefore the forks are quite different from the Sardar you've linked to. They have moderately over-sized blades compared to trad forks. Hence the conflict at the mounting points.

Suggestions to reassure the OP if you do use longer spacers. To make the lower mounting stronger you can reverse the bolt and attach a nut on the outside and you could drill out the mounting holes to M6 size, which is becoming a more common size for touring racks these days. There should be enough meat on the forks eyelets to enable this.

LowPlainsDrifter
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Joined: 23 May 2007, 4:12pm
Location: E. Yorks.

Re: Tubus Tara prob/ Dawes Sadar (steel frame) forks

Postby LowPlainsDrifter » 27 Mar 2012, 11:49am

CREPELLO wrote:
clandyfield wrote:I'm intrigued!

Looking at this photo of a Sardar:
http://www.bikeradar.com/gallery/articl ... 15?img=1#3

coupled with the Tubus mounting instructions here:

http://www.tubus.com/product.php?xn=16
(especially the diagram of the front wheel setup)

I can't see how grinding anything off would be necessary if you are using the front part of the lower bracket.

I can see how the fork thickness would cause a problem as the tubus has to cross it to meet with the fixing hole.

My take would be that spacing it out as necessary would be perfectly OK as the bottom fixing would be "in shear" load wise, and a 5mm bolt would be more than adequate to support 8Kg load - but I always take a few spare bolts for my tubus racks just in case!!

Hope you can sort it without grinding!!

My reading of this is that The OP describes their Sardar as a STEEL FRAME, therefore the forks are quite different from the Sardar you've linked to. They have moderately over-sized blades compared to trad forks. Hence the conflict at the mounting points.

Suggestions to reassure the OP if you do use longer spacers. To make the lower mounting stronger you can reverse the bolt and attach a nut on the outside and you could drill out the mounting holes to M6 size, which is becoming a more common size for touring racks these days. There should be enough meat on the forks eyelets to enable this.

Yes, mines a Steel frame. Different than the alloy one shown in the pic.
I shall try take a photo and show the point where the carrier tube bracket is against the leg.
zero population growth.

no to the rat race thanks.

LowPlainsDrifter
Posts: 185
Joined: 23 May 2007, 4:12pm
Location: E. Yorks.

Re: Tubus Tara prob/ Dawes Sadar (steel frame) forks

Postby LowPlainsDrifter » 27 Mar 2012, 11:55am

Brucey wrote:a spacer isn't a 'bodge' if it is done properly.

However, grinding (possibly safety critical) bits off your bike probably is.

There are spacers all over your bike that are just fine; what on earth makes you think that this one is going to be very much different?

cheers

I believe the amount i may have to space it out to clear the fork leg would be what I'd call a bodge as to me its just too far. it already has a spacer at that point. If I was to grind it would be just taking the corner off the bracket to clear the fork leg so it sat correct then. I wouldn't be going into the weld. I am about to have a look and see whats the best option. I will try take a pic.
I just wondered what other Steel frame Sadar users had encountered. There must be some who have a Tubus on the front.
zero population growth.

no to the rat race thanks.

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CJ
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Re: Tubus Tara prob/ Dawes Sadar (steel frame) forks

Postby CJ » 27 Mar 2012, 12:02pm

clandyfield wrote:I'm intrigued!

Looking at this photo of a Sardar:
http://www.bikeradar.com/gallery/articl ... 15?img=1#3

I'm apalled: that Dawes, who are supposed to know something about touring bikes, can put one on the market where the upper low-load bosses are clearly way too low on the fork! I'm also apalled that BikeRadar's reviewer does not pick this up.

Beware: imperfectly fitted front carriers are extremely dangerous. Accept no compromises whatsoever in this area. If a front carrier comes loose - which can happen very quickly - the carrier and/or pannier catches in the front wheel spokes and is promptly whipped around to the back of the fork, where it jams the wheel. The bike stops, the rider doesn't!
Chris Juden
One lady owner, never raced or jumped.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Tubus Tara prob/ Dawes Sadar (steel frame) forks

Postby Brucey » 27 Mar 2012, 12:42pm

LowPlainsDrifter wrote: I believe the amount i may have to space it out to clear the fork leg would be what I'd call a bodge as to me its just too far. it already has a spacer at that point. If I was to grind it would be just taking the corner off the bracket to clear the fork leg so it sat correct then. I wouldn't be going into the weld. I am about to have a look and see whats the best option. I will try take a pic.
I just wondered what other Steel frame Sadar users had encountered. There must be some who have a Tubus on the front.


I must admit it isn't the best arrangement from what you have described. Maybe there is a happy compromise to be had with a little adjustment. IIRC the standard spacer is 8mm long. How much longer would it need to be?

BTW CJ's points are well made; Also, I like Crepello's suggestion of a reversed bolt (I've done this myself many times) to which I usually add a nyloc. On tour these bolts get checked regularly, and I carry spares.

I had another thought; if the fork is large diameter and made in plain gauge steel the tip end wall is rather thick. This might (subject to careful examination) mean it is possible to put a nutsert into the the fork tip which will support the carrier very well. You may well find there is a vent hole in the fork near there anyway. Maybe this would be a better solution, although a downside is that it (like any other modification to the frame) would immediately void any frame warranty unless Dawes OK'd it first.

Some photos would certainly help.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LowPlainsDrifter
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Joined: 23 May 2007, 4:12pm
Location: E. Yorks.

Re: Tubus Tara prob/ Dawes Sadar (steel frame) forks

Postby LowPlainsDrifter » 27 Mar 2012, 8:52pm

Heres a couple of pics. You can see the bracket plate hits the fork.
I had a better look today and it looks like I will only have to chamfer/file the edge off the bracket plate to allow it all to sit back and clear the fat fork leg.
Image
zero population growth.

no to the rat race thanks.

LowPlainsDrifter
Posts: 185
Joined: 23 May 2007, 4:12pm
Location: E. Yorks.

Re: Tubus Tara prob/ Dawes Sadar (steel frame) forks

Postby LowPlainsDrifter » 27 Mar 2012, 8:54pm

Another view
Image
zero population growth.

no to the rat race thanks.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Tubus Tara prob/ Dawes Sadar (steel frame) forks

Postby Brucey » 27 Mar 2012, 9:20pm

I reckon one washer with the spacer would fix that.

Also, a 10mm dia spacer would be better if you can obtain one.

Q. is it possible to use the upper eye on the dropout instead?

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

clandyfield
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Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 8:43am

Re: Tubus Tara prob/ Dawes Sadar (steel frame) forks

Postby clandyfield » 27 Mar 2012, 9:25pm

Ah ha, I see your problem!

JOOI, how many washers will it take to space it away? I'd guess three.
If Tubus consider it OK to have an 8mm spacer; I doubt if increasing it to 11mm will compromise anything - although I'd ensure the bolts are still long enough - probably increase them to 25mm (or 30 if you want to use lock nuts as well)..

My experience is that it is inadvisable to start chamfering things to fit - you always need to take off far more than you initially imagine and usually over a much wider area.