Repair Options for B17

[groberts]

As I settled onto my Brooks B17 for a ride yesterday I felt the saddle give way, on investigating to my horror I discovered one of the rails had broken (see attached picture) - and I thought the Brooks B17 was bomb proof! Can anyone suggest if / where I can get it repaired e.g. can this be welded?

[Brucey]

oh dear!

It may be possible to weld this... but the

1) the weldability of the frame steel is unknown; it may be rather poor in fact.

2) Also the frame may have derived its original strength in part from cold work in the steel; this will be lost during welding.

It is possible to replace the entire frame; Brooks sell spare parts for this. You could upgrade to large-headed rivets at the same time if you don't already have them.

Repair is unlikely to be economic if you pay someone else to do it, but may be worth it either DIY or if you don't fancy breaking in a new saddle....

I guess you were lucky that you didn't end up with a jaggy piece of metal in the rear end....

cheers

[Mick F]

Has it failed within the clamp?
It looks a little corroded.
What's the other rail like?

I'd get it welded if I were you. You have nowt to loose. There's bound to be a chap nearby who'd tack a weld on there for you, perhaps clean it up first before you take it. If it's done "gently" it may not hurt the metal too much but please place a protective sheet of metal between the rail and the leather.

[thirdcrank]

How long have you had it? I think we have had a couple of posts on here about a fairly relaxed replacement policy at Brooks when fairly new ones have broken.

There is a thread somewhere on here with the details of a former Brooks expert, now retired who repairs saddles but the service wasn't particularly cheap. That was a while ago IIRC

=================================================

I've been through several old threads on the subject and found this in one of mine from 2006:

Tony Colegrave
Well House
Hastings Road
Northiam
Rye
TN31 6HY

01797 252177

[Brucey]

here;

http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3281&p=382689&hilit=+brooks+repair#p382689

cheers

[groberts]

Thanks for everyone's comments and suggestions. The saddle was kindly given to me by someone about four years ago and, I believe, probably had between 5 & 10 years use before; it's not the expense that bothers me but the thought of wearing in a new saddle - this one is very comfortable! The break was just at the junction with the seat clamp, the other rail looks fine - there is very minor surface oxidation but what is strange is that the metal at the break point almost looks crystalline and on touching leaves your fingers covered in a dark grey material, like graphite. I would guess that there is something wrong with the metal at this point originating from it's original formation that has deteriorated with time?

Plan-A is to try and (carefully) weld it.
Plan-B is to contact Tony Colegrave.
Plan-C is to look for a second hand replacement; as I said it's not the money but one already with some wear.
Plan-D is to buy a new one!

Watch this space + thanks again.

[cols3064]

send it to brooks for repair

[thirdcrank]

Bear in mind that in recent years, the production of Brooks saddles has had a bit of a bumpy ride, so to speak. There was a period possibly ten years ago, but don't quote me - when there seemed to be a lot of reports of broken rails on Brooks saddles. IIRC, CJ suggested that the chomed type tended to be worse than the painted in this respect. I broke one going over traffic calming - another type of bumpy ride - but the saddle had celebrated its 40th birthday and then some, so I had no grounds to grumble, but it was an old friend and I was sad to see it go in the bin.

[Brucey]

My bet is the saddle broke sometime during the previous ride, not when you mounted up this time round. If so the grey stuff is most likely from where the edges of the break have been rubbing on an aluminium clamp.

The fracture surface (once washed with solvent) will most likely comprise;

1) a jagged/'crystalline' looking region and

2) a smoother region with perhaps a little brown rust and faint curved lines within it.

a bit like this;



1) is the final fracture, and 2) is the fatigue crack. The curved lines are called 'beach marks' for obvious reasons. If the fracture has been rubbing together for a while the detail on the surface may be lost.

Failures of this type are almost invariably fatigue failures, and these in turn almost invariably originate from defects in the surface of the material, not the bulk. Even 'light rusting' can reduce the fatigue life of steel parts greatly in part because the surface becomes full of stress-concentrating blemishes.

I very often see broken motor springs (or parts of them) lying by the side of the road; the last part (half to 3/4 of a turn) of motor springs very frequently breaks off with a spiral fracture of otherwise similar appearance.

The frame of a brooks saddle may well be made from spring steel; (I've never tried to weld one so I don't know for sure) but if so a weld repair is unlikely to be sucessful for the reasons I described earlier.

cheers

[Mick F]

The frame of a brooks saddle may well be made from spring steel ......

Maybe, but probably not IMHO.

Tough-ish steel more like as you can see the frames are welded at either end of course and if you look carefully, they aren't that posh underneath. What about the plate at the rear of the saddle? Mine bent a bit a while back, so I bent it back again. I doubt a Brooks saddle has spring steel in it at all.

[thirdcrank]

... I doubt a Brooks saddle has spring steel in it at all.

I have a very nice one with two springs. It's a Conquest.

That's something else I have in common with Sheldon Brown

http://sheldonbrown.org/bass/index-one.html

PS Forgot to mention, when mine broke the damage was pretty much as described by brucey. it was obvious - even to the likes of me - that only a relatively thin bit of metal had been left at the end. I went over sometraffic calming on the far side of Wakefield, and that was the hump that broke the camel's saddle rail, or something like that. Apart from the sudden sadness of losing a close friend (we'd been cheek by jowl on so many rides) I had the discomfort of riding slowly home, half standing, half sitting, expecting every moment that the other side would go as well, leaving me sitting on a Campag two-bolt seatpin. (As Cpl Jones used to say...)

[Brucey]

The frame of a brooks saddle may well be made from spring steel ......

Maybe, but probably not IMHO.

Tough-ish steel more like as you can see the frames are welded at either end of course and if you look carefully, they aren't that posh underneath. What about the plate at the rear of the saddle? Mine bent a bit a while back, so I bent it back again. I doubt a Brooks saddle has spring steel in it at all.

Well, of the very many Brooks saddles I've taken apart, I don't recall seeing one with a welded frame; they are riveted to the rear part of the frame AFAIK.



the curved rear part [edit; which Colin has helpfully reminded me in another thread is often known as a 'cantle plate'] is a pressing made of mild steel for sure. The frame rails themselves I'm not so sure about. I have very good reasons for my apprehension re welding this part BTW.

cheers

[Mick F]

Perhaps the rail is riveted onto the rear pad piece, I see no reason why it shouldn't be, though TBH, i've never looked so closely until now!
However, you can see that the boss on the end of the rail is welded to it. It's the boss that is riveted.

What the steel rail is, I don't know. As you can see, mine is chrome plated. I would suspect that it's a strong/tough steel, not spring steel. Perhaps someone actually knows.

Mine is a Team Pro BTW.

[Brucey]

what makes you think that is a weld that you are looking at?

[Mick F]

Lumpy bits around the joint?
How else would the boss be fitted?
I'll try and get a better photograph if you want.

If the rail is spring steel, it would be cut off a roll of it, and heated to be bent to the correct shape.

It could be possible that the rail was 'formed' and forged with the boss as a single piece and that's what the lumpy marks are, but that wouldn't be able to be done with spring steel.