Looking for a touring mountain bike

[davecykl]

I'm looking for a touring mountain bike, or maybe I mean an off-road tourer, but it has to be equally happy on both roads and on fairly rough off-road terrain.

In terms of off-road use, I'm thinking of something that has to be capable of handling the rougher parts of the C2C route, the Trossachs section of NCR7, forest roads and paths, probably the likes of Glentress (if I ever take a visit), and so on, at the very least.

Unfortunately, this hybrid of the two worlds seems to be quite difficult to blend together. It seems that all mass market touring bikes only come with drop bars (Why? Surely the point of touring is to be able to enjoy the view rather than speed at all costs?) and tend to look rather too delicate to be able to handle too much thrashing around off-road (or are looks deceptive?). Similarly, it seems to be virtually impossible to buy a reasonably-decently-specced mountain bike nowadays that doesn't have a suspension fork, whether you want it or not.

What I'm after is a sturdy bike with flat bars (and bar ends), rigid fork so that I can fit a front rack (and, besides, I'm firmly of the belief that, regardless of lock-out, suspension forks are extra weight and just one more thing that can go wrong where you least need it (eg, on a single track road or single track trail somewhere in the northwest Highlands a long long way from the nearest decent bike shop)), sufficient frame clearance for knobbly tyres if/when I need to fit them (I'd be riding semi-slicks normally), and of course the ability to fit lights and mudguards and both rear and front racks.

However, in a break from my "keep it simple" strategy, I'm quite keen on the idea of disk brakes, rather than V-brakes (which themselves seem to me to be much more of a kerfuffle to replace the brake blocks than plain old cantilever brakes ever were (gazillions of washers going spang! everywhere are one of the reasons that my current bike and I are currently glowering at each other)). Nevertheless, with disk brakes, there is mechanical versus hydraulic to consider. Should "something happen" I'd assume that disk brake cables are more easily obtained and replaced than should something go wrong with a hydraulic system? (At this point, I should add that my touring isn't likely to extend beyond the UK and Western Europe, so I'd hope to be always within 200 km of a reasonably-well-equipped bike shop rather than real extreme wilds, but at the same time due to the geography and ruralness of many touring areas often not able to be able to definitely rely on a proper bike shop being nearer than that (although I'd still need to materialise a rescue pick-up somehow if "something happened" that I couldn't fix on the spot, no matter how near the nearest bike shop was.))

I've been looking round local bike shops and so far the following have caught my eye, but don't quite seem suitable:

Trek 7.3 FX Disc: has mountings for a front rack, but rather narrow on the forks, thus severely limiting larger tyres and muck ingress. Also seems to be more of a roadie-hybrid, so would it be up to proper off-road use?

Cannondale Quick CX 4: Similar to the Trek, wider frame clearance for tyres, but no mountings for a front rack and looks a bit fiddlier to fit mudguards and a rear rack. Again, looks a bit more road-orientated?

Revolution Courier Pursuit '12: if EBC could be persuaded to swap me the suspension fork for a rigid fork, this might be a winner, but the hydraulic (rather than mechanical) disk brakes make me a little nervous from the boondocks survival perspective. They also have a relatively similar Revolution Courier Hydro Disc '12 (didn't actually spot this in the shop) which has better spec but again seems a bit more road-orientated in its geometry.

Are there any other bikes out there which might meet my needs? I have a budget of around £500 - 600 at the most.

Thanks for any advice!

[horizon]

davecykl: I think your budget is too low for what you want. The bike you want is probably the much lamented Sardar (see lots of threads) and that had Galaxy specifications and would therefore today be about £1000. I wouldn't worry about the drops - they are fine for pootling along - but bars notwithstanding there is very little on the market that meets your needs. The crunch is probably the wheels: ideally these should be 26" with clearance for 38s but otherwise all touring spec. I don't know if the SLHT 26" version has room for these. What you describe is the ideal bike and nobody makes it.

[Brucey]

maybe what you want is close to a so-called 'expedition' bike; these normally have to carry large loads across poorly surfaced roads, but given your penchant for offroading similar levels of strength might be required.

Re the disc brakes vs rim brakes; I don't think maintaining even cable disc brakes is any less fiddly than maintaining rim brakes, quite the reverse in fact. You can get cheap disc brakes quite readily these days, so complete replacement is not too difficult. However, buying new pads for any given brake is not so easy; there are dozens of different types. I'd suggest taking a spare set of pads if you are going away for any length of time, and using sintered pads to start with because they last longer. The most likely failures of these brakes are the pads (of course) and getting a bent rotor. Accidentally bending a rotor is just as easy (if not easier) than bending a wheel and is, if anything, worse because temporarily it probably means you will have to run with no brake until you get it fixed properly, wheras it is usually possible to straighten a bent wheel enough to run through the brakes until it can be fixed properly.

Despite their name, dropped bars don't have to be, er, dropped. They can be set fairly high, and can give a wider choice of riding positions than flat bars. Its all personal preference... and what stem/how much steerer you have left....

Unless you are very tall, I'd suggest a 26" wheeled bike rather than a 700c wheeled bike, if you can find one with the spec you want, that is..

I think you are right to be thinking of a rigid fork unless you are going to do a lot of offroading. If you are not quite sure, keeping a suspension fork to sell or refit if you do more offroading later isn't such a daft idea.

You might be as well off buying a better bike used than a new one that isn't quite right; you'll be spending money on it anyway and it won't look brand new for long. You need to factor in the price of the accessories that you will need too.

As you may have noticed , people seek out used machines like the Dawes Sardar ( which had two different forms at least- steel frame/dropped bars or ally frame/flat bars) for this kind of work. Others build their own bike from an old MTB base. All routes that are also worth considering.

cheers

[531colin]

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b17s21p2693

Test bike available.
Straight bar, cantilever, whatever you want builds available.

[horizon]

Colin: what's to stop that bike being made of say 653 with 26" wheels and would it come in cheaper than £1350 (which for Ti seems very cheap). Oh, and does it take 38s?

[Greybeard]

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b17s21p2693

Test bike available.
Straight bar, cantilever, whatever you want builds available.

That's just what I was going to suggest If they'd been available at the time I was looking, I dare say I wouldn't have the Dawes UG now

Steve

[thecycleclinic]

How about an old steel MTB frame like a Marin from the late 80's or early ninties. They had canti's simple and had rack mounts. A good set of V brakes to replace them with decent pads asnd then buy a second hand chainset, derauilers and shifters. Buy new wheels, chain and cassette. Bars, saddle seatpost, BB and headset can all be sourced second hand as well. You should be able to put together a very good budget and have some change probably.

[horizon]

What you describe is the ideal bike and nobody makes it.

I meant nobody makes it anywhere near his price range. You can add the Thorn Sherpa as well. But there seems to me to be no reason why Dawes for example or EBC couldn't have matched their entire touring range, bike for bike, with a 26" version with space for 38s, lower gears and maybe a straight bar option so that you had a choice from say £500 upwards.

[horizon]

How about an old steel MTB frame like a Marin from the late 80's or early ninties. They had canti's simple and had rack mounts. A good set of V brakes to replace them with decent pads asnd then buy a second hand chainset, derauilers and shifters. Buy new wheels, chain and cassette. Bars, saddle seatpost, BB and headset can all be sourced second hand as well. You should be able to put together a very good budget and have some change probably.

It's a good way to go but why does no-one make new one (at a medium price)?

[thecycleclinic]

Most modern MTB's do not have rack mounts. The MTB scence has moved on hence the suggestion of an old frame. Also an £500 MTB with rack mounts will have suspension and not be that brilliant for touring. Custom build here is the way to go using a mixture of seond hand and used parts. I have built many MTB's for my self this way. It is the only way to do a decent bike on a budget.

In fact you could just buy a complete bike like this.
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=199065

[Ant]

not mine, so not a plug, but this is interesting and meets many of your needs...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Singular-Gryp ... 41652a0f69

[mattsccm]

Look at something like a Genisis IO, the hub gear version. Rigid forks plus gears.
I bet Planet X/On One do something/have the frame that would suit.
Forgt suspension at your budget , it won't be much good,
If you are going flat bars don't mess about, go for hydraulic discs. They are way more effective than anything else and they don't break. Millions of MTBers aren't wrong. Its just like the idea that STI levers were bad for touring because they were fragile. Or alloy rims for that matter. Apart from new pads I have done nothing to the set on my MTB since Jan 07. If you are not going "wild" you can get pads or just carry a set.
I reckon that by looking at the smaller brands that do more oddball stuff you will find what you want.

[Ambler]

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b17s21p2693

Test bike available.
Straight bar, cantilever, whatever you want builds available.

If you illustrated this with flat bars as well I am sure you would sell more.
(just changed the drops to flats on the S Galaxy I bought from you - heaven!)

[531colin]

................If you illustrated this with flat bars as well I am sure you would sell more.
(just changed the drops to flats on the S Galaxy I bought from you - heaven!)

We have a demo bike in the tourers with flat bars....hardly ever sell one. Flat bar users are a higher percentage on this forum than in Spa customers?

[531colin]

Colin: what's to stop that bike being made of say 653 with 26" wheels and would it come in cheaper than £1350 (which for Ti seems very cheap). Oh, and does it take 38s?

Its got room for Marathon cross tyres (700x40?) and mud.
I agree, as an expedition bike it wants 26" wheels and a stiff cromo frame.....as a UK/Europe roughstuff bike its a blast on the bigger wheels.
The price comes from our own 4 bolt chainset and bar end shifters, in steel and Far East assembly (machine built wheels ) it could be a cheap bike.