Shimano Alfine 11 - Longer term reliability

[reohn2]

.............I was intrigued to see the comment on using a derailleur for events as you could always depend on it; I think I might be better off on that route for my next bike as my simple brain at least understands derailleurs .

From the outside looking in,the Alfine IGH is a lottery,and far from trouble free for some users,not only that but unless you know a thing or two about them or have a knowledgeable LBS you're pretty much stumped whilst you wait for a replacement from the importer.
Deraileurs OTOH are reliable and with a little cleaning and regular maintenance are trouble free.
I'm not decrying IGH in total,but the Shimano Alfine IGH's aren't a SA3 killer by a long shot.The worst of it is that once bought due to the frame configuations ie;dropouts,etc you're stuck with the IGH problem not the IGH solution.
All IMO of course.

[meic]

.............I was intrigued to see the comment on using a derailleur for events as you could always depend on it; I think I might be better off on that route for my next bike as my simple brain at least understands derailleurs .

From the outside looking in,the Alfine IGH is a lottery,and far from trouble free for some users,not only that but unless you know a thing or two about them or have a knowledgeable LBS you're pretty much stumped whilst you wait for a replacement from the importer.
Deraileurs OTOH are reliable and with a little cleaning and regular maintenance are trouble free.
I'm not decrying IGH in total,but the Shimano Alfine IGH's aren't a SA3 killer by a long shot.The worst of it is that once bought due to the frame configuations ie;dropouts,etc you're stuck with the IGH problem not the IGH solution.
All IMO of course.

I dont agree with that. Those of us who spend a rather large amount of time looking after derailleur transmissions manage to keep them working despite their faults.
Occasionally people ask me about help finding or fixing a bike for themselves or their children, if I could find an affordable hub with gearing to use in Wales, I would be emphatic in telling them to avoid any derailleur bike.

[Brucey]

understanding derailleurs is one thing, but if the pedalling forces were transmitted through (say) the complicated STI mechanism, I daresay they would break more often too. C'est brutal, mais ca marche.

Unless you are wedded to vertical dropouts with derailleurs, I'm not sure that you are committed to one gearing system when you buy the frame these days. Even if you are, there are frames with interchangeable dropouts, albeit they are a little more expensive.

What is odd is the discrepancy between user experiences with some IGHs and others. The Nexus 8 hub seems a good deal more reliable in use; the main problem with them is that the water gets in.

My own personal experience with IGHs (and that of my cycling friends) is that they are considerably more reliable than (say) a derailleur chain is.

If they show any signs of misbehaviour, it is most likely adjustment, inadequate lubrication, or water ingress.

One comment I would make is that a very common fault with derailleur systems is that the cable is not correctly maintained. The net result of this is normally that there is a lot of noise, and sometimes some slipping/ghost shifting. It takes quite a lot of this sort of thing before breakage is inevitable; by contrast bad adjustment on an IGH, if left unattended, will very likely break the hub in short order.

In response to JF's query, yes, I would immediately service/replace the cable. Any unusual noises from inside the hub are something to be concerned about.

cheers

[meic]

by contrast bad adjustment on an IGH, if left unattended, will very likely break the hub in short order.

It appears that my friends and neighbours have quite good reason to stick to their cars, bikes are just not reliable enough for non-enthusiasts.

[Brucey]

don't get me started on the innumerable ways people find of making their cars not work....

and it is not as if you don't get due warning if your IGH is out of adjustment. I would say that the majority of Alfine 11 breakages reported here have been preceded by a period of time where the hub was 'making funny noises' but was used anyway.

cheers

[meic]

and it is not as if you don't get due warning if your IGH is out of adjustment. I would say that the majority of Alfine 11 breakages reported here have been preceded by a period of time where the hub was 'making funny noises' but was used anyway.

That which is screamingly, painfully obvious to an enthusiast is blissfully ignored by a casual user, especially (grits teeth while saying) a child.

[reohn2]

I dont agree with that. Those of us who spend a rather large amount of time looking after derailleur transmissions manage to keep them working despite their faults.
Occasionally people ask me about help finding or fixing a bike for themselves or their children, if I could find an affordable hub with gearing to use in Wales, I would be emphatic in telling them to avoid any derailleur bike.

Every day locally I see cheap,deraileur equiped bikes being used daily, who's chains are red with rust,the bikes in question are usually of £70 supermarket type and working fairly well.If these bike were give even a modicum of maintenance ie;a little lube,they'd work even better.
Considering what is paid for an Alfine 11 equiped bike the equivalent priced deraileur bike will be better IMHO.
I had a cheap Shimano Tourney(3x7 freewheel,Tourney flat bar STI's) equiped Hybrid (£220 bracket) that I rode for a two or three thousand miles as a local hack,whilst I did clean it occasionally,the gears never needed any attention.You could renew the drivetrain three of four times at least,for the cost of an Alfine 11.

[jfarnhill]

Hopefully not increasing brucey's ire, I found that using the 'latest' on changing gear (ie stop pedalling whilst changing then a couple of rotations with no load) has led to a quiet, non-chattery hub again. So, hurray!

Responding to other comments, my issue with the Alfine11 v a derailleur is that it's so picky to get it performing as it should. The Alfine8 I tried was a lot better as it was just more forgiving; if everything wasn't quite right then it was still working and wasn't being damaged. Taking the car analogy, I'd say an Alfine11 is like a gearbox with no synchromesh. Sure, when you've got the knack of double declutching then it works well and unless you've got no mechanical sympathy then you wince every time it graunches but there's a difference between recognising something isn't right and having the skill to do something about it. For most people they'd prefer a synchromesh box and I think that's what a derailleur offers, in spite of it being a pig to clean. It also has LBSs with the skills to maintain it; my experience has been that even Madison are struggling somewhat to provide consistent advice on what you need to do, leaving it to excellent forums like this to provide advice.

Given I'm going to be replacing the cable, what would people recommend in terms of brand? Also, how long should I expect the new one to last? My current cable seems to have lasted about 1100 miles .

[meic]

Every day locally I see cheap,deraileur equiped bikes being used daily, who's chains are red with rust,the bikes in question are usually of £70 supermarket type and working fairly well

I wonder how many of those are working in single speed mode.
In areas where you see that level of bike use a single speed is probably good enough.
Where a single speed isnt good enough you dont tend to see that many bikes being ridden.

[reohn2]

Meic
read the post by jfarnhill just prior to yours.

jfarnhill
I disagree that deraileurs are a pig to clean,if done fortnightly on a commuter it's a 10 minute job no matter what the weather,in good weather monthly.

[Brucey]

glad your change in shifting technique has helped; BTW you don't have to stop pedalling completely, just stop applying any real pedalling load during the shift is normally enough.

Re cables; I cheerfully use bog-standard shimano stainless inners and shimano index outer. A thin smear of light (not thick and gloopy) lube is a good idea, with the caveat that if you have a full-length outer, a thinner lube is preferable.

Where necessary, sealed ferrules are a good idea too. IME most cables fail because there isn't any lube on them and/or the water gets in.

BTW I've said this before, but I'll say it again; shimano should have put the indexing inside the hub. Failing that, they should have put index marks for every gear (not just one unidentified one) on the cassette joint. In the absence of these, a failing/binding cable can be 'correctly adjusted' on the yellow dot gear, but there is no way of knowing if the other gears are really in adjustment or not; with a binding cable, this is a very plausible outcome.

cheers

[MacBludgeon]

Brucey, when you mention sealed ferrules are these easily available, just asking as there may be someone 'I know' that may have accidentally cut the wrong end of the outer cable that comes with an Alfine shifter. Having done this 'my friend' noticed that the end that would be most exposed to the elements has a fitted metal ferrule that looks well sealed. He also noted that the instructions mentioned trimming the cable from the other end. He can't seem to find the cable outer for sale with the pre-prepared sealed ferrule.

[TonyR]

Hopefully not increasing brucey's ire, I found that using the 'latest' on changing gear (ie stop pedalling whilst changing then a couple of rotations with no load) has led to a quiet, non-chattery hub again. So, hurray!

Not a good strategy on a climb unless you like walking up them

Given I'm going to be replacing the cable, what would people recommend in terms of brand? Also, how long should I expect the new one to last? My current cable seems to have lasted about 1100 miles .

The Gore Ride-On ones have worked best for me but they're not cheap.

[Brucey]

re ferrules; they are available but not readily available. Shimano do some and so do Jagwire. I'm sure there are others, too.

They come in some cable kits, but are not often easily sourced otherwise. If I knew of a good source for them I'd say so, but I don't, sadly.

cheers

[MacBludgeon]

re ferrules; they are available but not readily available. Shimano do some and so do Jagwire. I'm sure there are others, too.

They come in some cable kits, but are not often easily sourced otherwise. If I knew of a good source for them I'd say so, but I don't, sadly.

cheers

thanks, my searches have brought up nothing I don't already have, ie the plastic sealed ones Shimano sell. The Gore ride-On ones are under product recall and their website says they've stopped production as of eo Dec 2012.

I'm surprised that you can't buy a cable kit for an Alfine, if they consider it important enough to put the fancy metal end cap on during production then I'd have assumed it was still important for a future cable outer change. I'll mooch around I bet I can find a spare somewhere.