Correct size ball bearings for 1" threaded headset

[Russell160]

As it says in the title, am fitting one of these, old style 1 " campagnolo threaded headset to an old steel frame: what size of ball bearings do I need?

Also, I have seen these both caged and loose: what is the difference in terms of performance?

Thanks.

[james01]

There isn't a definite answer because different brands vary. Can you take the old bearings to a bearing supplier for diameter measuring?
Loose balls are reckoned to be the engineer's preference. Caged balls can be easier for an amateur to fit but allow fewer balls to spread the load.

[Brucey]

campagnolo 'record' steel headsets use 5/32" balls. [edit; I have now seen the error of my ways... (I think) and Campagnolo Record Track headsets do use 5/32" balls (and some folk even used them on the road because they had a lower stack height...) but the road versions have 3/16" balls. Apologies for any confusion caused...]

Campagnolo use clipped races which are a style normally to be avoided if you want the strongest bearing; however Campagnolo are the exception in that the clipped races only have one or two balls fewer than the loose ball fill permits.

Thus my recommendation is (unusually) that you should stick with campagnolo ball clips unless the headset is damaged and 'indexes' because it has tiny indentations in the races. If it is damaged, this is the time to fill with loose balls, because it will usually recover the headset to good working order.

It has been my experience that even slightly worn campagnolo balls are better than the cheap balls that you get in little bags in the bike shop for about a pound. Obviously if you can source the highest quality balls from a bearing factor this is the way to go, but that probably won't fix your bike today....

cheers

[Mick F]

All the Campag headsets I've ever had used bigger balls on the bottom race - I'm almost positive.

This is the Record 2006 version I have in my spares box. I have the Chorus version on my bike at the moment and when it wears away, the Record will be fitted. I reckon I have enough balls and headsets to see me out!

As you can see, the balls are different sizes. AFAIK, they always were different.

I have a Steel Record headset on Barbarella dating back to the late 1980's and I'm fairly positive the balls are different sizes.

[Brucey]

'later' (aluminium bodied) Campag headsets -roughly anything after C-Record with an aluminium body- do mostly have larger balls in the lower race. Nearly all (or even all maybe?) the threadless versions are like this, for example.

But the OP's question is re. steel threaded Campag headsets; these use 5/32" balls, at least all the ones I have owned (about a dozen of different types) do. (edit- it isn't necessarily a steel headset as Jerry has kindly pointed out to me... second edit; only some campag headsets are 5/32"....3/16" seems more likely... )

BTW the ball size info is often on Velobase, and this may help the OP identify the headset correctly.

cheers

[Mick F]

You've got me there - again! - Brucey.
Your talking from a great deal of experience - so I bow to you.

However - typical of me - I want proof, so later today, I'm going to undo Barbarella's headset and have a shufti inside. Maybe a good idea to re-grease at the same time.

[CREPELLO]

The Op doesn't actually state that it's a steel headset, only that it's...

As it says in the title, am fitting one of these, old style 1 " campagnolo threaded headset to an old steel frame: what size of ball bearings do I need?

Also, I have seen these both caged and loose: what is the difference in terms of performance?

Thanks.

Even alu 1" threaded headsets are old style

[Brucey]

The Op doesn't actually state that it's a steel headset, only that it's...

As it says in the title, am fitting one of these, old style 1 " campagnolo threaded headset to an old steel frame: what size of ball bearings do I need?

Also, I have seen these both caged and loose: what is the difference in terms of performance?

Thanks.

Even alu 1" threaded headsets are old style

-fair point, I must have read steel twice in there...

-probably seeing double again....

cheers

[Mick F]

Well Brucey, you are not quite right!

Here's Barbarella's headset.

It's p-ing down out there! and I've nothing better to do with my time than go and check on the old girl - Barbarella that is, not Mrs Mick F!

I undid the headset and pulled a ball out of the top race. Nice and greasy! and measured the ball with my digital callipers set to "inches" and measured 0.185". I checked and re-checked to make sure.

I lifted the front and pulled out a nice and greasy ball from the bottom race and measured 0.185" too.

0.185" is 3/16" or as near as dammit.

This headset is circa 1990 and is chromed steel.

[rjb]

and here's a campag (record ?) one from the 1970's. Chrome has seen better days and has almost pealed off - but the races are still perfect with no sign of brinelling. Both sets of caged balls are 4.75mm ie 3/16". And it has just about stopped raining so off out soon.

click to enlarge

Just checked on velobase and it is one of these - complete with the <C> marking - http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx? ... &AbsPos=10

[Brucey]

Is Mick's a Xenon model? If so it isn't one I've had in my own hands.

I have (amongst others) a ~1990 Chorus headset and that has a steel crown race, alu (+ steel bearing insert obviously) lower head tube race, steel upper head tube race, alu adjusting race (again with steel insert), alu locknut. The alu race parts look very similar to the ones you have, but maybe its just the style of the things.

IIRC at this vintage some headsets have 5/32" balls in the lower race, some with 3/16". Years ago a chum of mine kindly gave me a 'headset' or at least a collection of spare parts anyway.... by a process of elimination we concluded that one of his old bikes must have been assembled with a 'odd mix' of chorus and C-record headset parts that somehow must have worked.... In any event the spare parts that were left over amounted to an entire headset, but one that couldn't actually be assembled to work... IIRC I did eventually make a good headset out of it, by remachining some of the parts.

rjb's headset is like several of mine so Ive just been back to triple-check... and....it is official... I am a numpty...

Having disassembled both 'Record' steel headsets and 'Super Record' aluminium headsets I can report that they do indeed have 3/16" balls in....

So how did I get it so wrong I wondered? Well I checked my spare Campagnolo Track gruppo headset earlier on. This, when it gets refitted, will have loose balls. Which is why there was a packet of 5/32" loose balls in the box with the headset. I then checked my spare record road headset and there was the nice little campagnolo plastic potty with the ball clips in it and yes, they were 5/32" too.

What I didn't realise was that they were the ball clips from the track headset, not the road headset, in the wrong box....d'oh! And they are different....double d'oh!

Of course all the Tange 'Campag style' headsets also have 5/32" balls in, so I suppose they are a copy of the track headset, not the road headset really.

Anyway thanks for setting me right chaps... I'll never believe anything I say again (including that...? )

cheers

[Mick F]

We live and learn - especially me.

Xenon?
I don't think so, but no really recollection of buying it.

When my Mercian was built in mid 1986, I specified a Red S headset. Sealed, black plastic, roller bearings top and bottom. They were all the rage in the mid eighties and were all over the Freewheel catalogue pages. Remember Freewheel? I loved that mag and lusted over every single page. They had a section with Mercians in .......

Any road up, a few happy years later, I was upgrading - yet again - and my Red S headset wasn't as "sealed" as I expected and the nice roller bearings in it had started to corrode. Bad maintenance on my part - we live and learn!

I bought my Campag headset at about 1990 on offer at a great price from either Mercian or JD Whiskers. It would have been old stock. I can't remember the group set, but IIRC some components were the same across the range. I think it was just advertised as "Campagnolo Headset". TBH, I can't remember the name Xenon from back then. Maybe Athena or Triomphe? It could easily have been an early 80s Olympic for all I know!

I await further education.

[Mick F]

Yep.
Looks like Xenon.
Well spotted Brucey.
http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx? ... &AbsPos=29

The other suspects weren't quite right. This one was 1990 - 92, so it fits with when I bought it, but I do seem to remember that it was old stock.

[Brucey]

Xenon;



http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=9949BE7F-236F-40A4-9E3F-AACA67AAEA06&Enum=111&AbsPos=19

Athena;



http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=5F5E82F3-F834-46BE-8FBD-A1210FDF6094&Enum=111&AbsPos=11

Record 1040 Pista



http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=D9198407-74B1-4AD4-A62F-02C089F33E32&Enum=111&AbsPos=24

[edit- I just measured mine and Campagnolo Record 1040 Pista stack height is ~36.5mm, or ~33.5mm if the spacer is omitted. My spacer is 3.25mm which may be non-standard; it is certainly thicker than the one in the image above, from Velobase]

cheers

[Drake]

Don't want to sidetrack this thread . But i'm sure i've read somewhere that there is a technical difference between a steel ball and a ball bearing .
i.e . A ball bearing is machined more accurately than a steel ball .