ineffective brakes

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malverncyclist
Posts: 216
Joined: 7 Apr 2010, 12:17pm

ineffective brakes

Postby malverncyclist » 14 Jul 2012, 5:41pm

I am trying to get my head 'round how to make brakes on my 1973 ti Raleigh road bike better. It still has the original Weinmann brakes on, side pull callipers and new pads. No comparison with the sora/STI. combination on my modern audax bike. What will make the difference - putting on modern callipers (eg soras) or STIs or both?

Thanks

Martin

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531colin
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Location: North Yorkshire

Re: ineffective brakes

Postby 531colin » 14 Jul 2012, 6:16pm

There is some wonderful stuff from "Brucey" here...http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=63112&start=45

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: ineffective brakes

Postby Brucey » 14 Jul 2012, 6:20pm

which model/what reach brake do you have?

What pads and rims?

What cables are you using?

Note that older brakes use higher lever ratios and higher cable tensions; this makes the cable quality more important than with newer brakes.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mig
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Joined: 19 Oct 2011, 9:39pm

Re: ineffective brakes

Postby mig » 14 Jul 2012, 6:51pm

are you using steel rimmed wheels which are inevitably wet at the moment?!

malverncyclist
Posts: 216
Joined: 7 Apr 2010, 12:17pm

Re: ineffective brakes

Postby malverncyclist » 14 Jul 2012, 6:55pm

Blimey, blinded by science ... Need to go and check, cables are the ones that the shop fitted 18 months ago when last serviced (not much help, is it).

The rest I'll have to look at, but know they are alu wheels.

Martin

malverncyclist
Posts: 216
Joined: 7 Apr 2010, 12:17pm

Re: ineffective brakes

Postby malverncyclist » 14 Jul 2012, 7:26pm

Ok, reach of the brakes (Weinmann, 1970s stuff)) seems to be 40-60mm, rims are aluminium. Pads are indescript, bogstandard 'no-name' pads. Cables, er, don't know, brake cables??? As for wet weather and ineffective brakes - even in the dry they are not exactly "stunning" performers.



Martin

Brucey
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Re: ineffective brakes

Postby Brucey » 14 Jul 2012, 7:46pm

why don't you try a few swapsies?

Try the brake blocks from your other bike.
Try a brake caliper swap. (but be aware of different leverage ratios and cable pulls)

No-name brake blocks can easily make your brakes not work. So can cables that don't have liners and/or lubrication.

But when all is said and done the weinmann brakes are likely not going to work as well as the modern stuff, there has been progress in the last forty years....

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

malverncyclist
Posts: 216
Joined: 7 Apr 2010, 12:17pm

Re: ineffective brakes

Postby malverncyclist » 14 Jul 2012, 7:52pm

[url]the weinmann brakes are likely not going to work as well as the modern stuff[/url]

I assume that's more the calipers than the levers ???

Martin

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: ineffective brakes

Postby Brucey » 14 Jul 2012, 8:25pm

its not that simple; they are designed to work together. Although it might be OK for an experiment, for various reasons it is not necessarily a good idea to mix modern levers with older calipers or older levers with modern calipers in the long run.

Q. would you buy no-name tyres and expect them to grip as well as decent ones?

If not, then why not try some proper brake blocks.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

thirdcrank
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Re: ineffective brakes

Postby thirdcrank » 14 Jul 2012, 8:40pm

Brucey wrote: ...But when all is said and done the weinmann brakes are likely not going to work as well as the modern stuff, there has been progress in the last forty years....


+1 but I'd include a word such as "remarkable" before "progress."

hexhome
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Joined: 1 Oct 2010, 10:33am
Location: Hexham, Northumberland

Re: ineffective brakes

Postby hexhome » 15 Jul 2012, 12:22am

Koolstop Salmons solved the same problem with the same brakes for me.

steeleagle
Posts: 27
Joined: 8 Oct 2008, 2:28pm

Re: ineffective brakes

Postby steeleagle » 15 Jul 2012, 12:47am

With older style brakes/pads/rims that do not "bite" at all! You can find yourself squeezing your levers incredibly hard, so hard that the cable housing flexes A LOT.

A better quality, or more specifically "linear" outer will transmit the force a lot better.

In addition to this, make sure your caliper itself is in good working order and can move freely, and that your rims are clean.

Drake
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Joined: 19 Apr 2012, 9:01am

Re: ineffective brakes

Postby Drake » 15 Jul 2012, 7:02am

hexhome wrote:Koolstop Salmons solved the same problem with the same brakes for me.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge on this subject . . but when i looked up these pads,they appeared to be just replacement rubbers . That in it's self is a bit of a revelation to me . . cant remember being able to change just rubbers 20yrs ago . So somewhat of a basic question i'm afraid . . can you buy these pads already in holders . If not can you recommend suitable holders that these rubbers can be fitted to . . i assume that suitable holders would come with rubbers already fitted to them . . cant imagine that would be sold as a seperate item .

hexhome
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Location: Hexham, Northumberland

Re: ineffective brakes

Postby hexhome » 15 Jul 2012, 9:23am

My Weinmann's Image were fitted with cartridges like these - http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/clarks-road- ... prod22566/

The performance with those pads was between 'barely adequate' and 'scary'. I replaced the pads with these - http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/koolstop-koolstop-shimano-dura-salmon-(wet-and-muddy)-inserts-prod21058/ and the performance is now between 'adequate' and 'confident'.

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CREPELLO
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Re: ineffective brakes

Postby CREPELLO » 15 Jul 2012, 10:48am

steeleagle wrote:With older style brakes/pads/rims that do not "bite" at all! You can find yourself squeezing your levers incredibly hard, so hard that the cable housing flexes A LOT.

A better quality, or more specifically "linear" outer will transmit the force a lot better.

In addition to this, make sure your caliper itself is in good working order and can move freely, and that your rims are clean.
If by "linear" you mean gear cable housing, then that is outright dangerous. In the short term , it could function ok, but the steel wires of the housing, incased in the plastic casing aren't designed to hold the forces applied when applying the brakes. Ultimately, the cable will collapse, possibly quite suddenly, because there is nothing other than the plastic casing stopping the individual wires from buckling or popping out. All it takes is a nick in the plastic.

Or perhaps you meant something completely different, but I took that "linear" could only mean one thing.