26.2 bars with 26.0 clamp?

[springhead]

I've got a set of Giro d'Italia bars, nominally 26.4, but they measure 26.2. Bit of Googling shows other people measure them the same - they are later ones, not long before the switch to 26.0

Anyway, I need a stem taller than my current 26.4 Cinelli 1A. Dia Compe do a nice 1A lookalike but it's 26.0.

Do I risk the mistmatch, or buy newer 26.0 bars?

I don't want the clamp to be straining, though 1A's look pretty tough. Cinelli breakages seem to be more the 1R/XA/XE.

[james01]

My experience is that manufacturing tolerances in this area can vary significantly, so 0.2mm isn't much to worry about. I'd see how easily the bars insert and call a halt if too much brute force is needed.

[Brucey]

Measuring used handlebar centre sleeves is tricky because they are very often no longer either round or of uniform diameter along the length.

I may have misunderstood what you are driving at, but I'm not sure you can infer any likely behaviour of a Dia Compe stem from past experience of a Cinelli 1A stem; they are not necessarily made of the same material.

As a solution, I would ream the stem to match the bars exactly.

cheers

[CJ]

Do I risk the mistmatch.

Not with that design of stem. Front-opening stems you can get away with a small mismatch, but with that sort you'll strain the stem and probably scratch the bars in fitting and then it won't clamp up evenly, so the bars may rock in the stem. The fitting scratches and abrasion from any subsequent movement will encourage the formation of fatigue cracks, increasing the probability of handlebar failure at some future point.

[Brucey]

I worry a bit less about scratches etc on Cinelli bars than many others because Cinelli bars have a separate centre sleeve. This method of construction adds a few grammes to a handlebar, but makes them considerably less vulnerable to fatigue at or near the clamp IME. If the sleeve cracks right through the bar is still OK for a while and the chances are that you will spot (or feel) the crack. Cracks on the inner part of the bar are another thing perhaps, but I've never seen such a crack happen in normal use.

I find it a little strange that the sleeve method of construction appears to have gone out of favour. A friend of mine recently tried to buy some handlebars with a sleeve and basically failed; apart from retro Cinellis (which I like BTW, but don't very well suit STIs and Ergos ) he found none.

Incidentally, another solution to the OP's dilemma might be to polish the anodising off the centre sleeve. This (and then bringing back a mirror finish) will take about 0.1 or 0.2mm off the sleeve and make it a better fit in the stem.

Years ago at least one 'aero' pattern quill stem had a second bolt near the pinch bolt, which was to 'jack' the stem open slightly so that the bars could be fitted without scratches. I am sure that some folk misused this bolt and just broke stuff with it....

cheers

[Mick F]

......... apart from retro Cinellis (which I like BTW, but don't very well suit STIs and Ergos )

I have a Cinelli 1R stem and Cinelli 64 'bars, and have used them constantly since fitting them in 1986.

I use Campag Ergos these days, and they fit very well indeed.
What doesn't "suit" about them?

[Brucey]

......... apart from retro Cinellis (which I like BTW, but don't very well suit STIs and Ergos )

I have a Cinelli 1R stem and Cinelli 64 'bars, and have used them constantly since fitting them in 1986.

I use Campag Ergos these days, and they fit very well indeed.
What doesn't "suit" about them?

It has been my experience that both STIs and Ergos fit 'better' on so-called 'anatomical' handlebars. There are (I believe) two issues;
-first, the outer radius of curvature of the part of the handlebar that the mechanism clamps to: Campagnolo recommend no more than ~65-75mm radius and specifically recommend that heavy contact at the insert piece is avoided, because the operation of the mechanism can be affected.
-Second, on large radius of curvature handlebars especially, the brake lever travel can be reduced somewhat. On both Campagnolo and Shimano levers the gearchange paddle hits the bar first on most constant radius bars, and it is this which limits brake lever travel. On Shimano STIs both the brake lever and the gearchange paddle hit at the same time on most 'anatomical' bars, but not on many others.

I think you can lose 10-20% of the possible cable pull through the second issue. This clearly doesn't worry every rider/brake setup and many handlebar patterns (Cinelli mod 63,64 etc) don't cause too much trouble because the bend radius is still quite small. (Of course some levers are reach-adjustable with shims, too.) But Mod 66 bars (for example) have a much larger radius and with some brake calipers you can be in danger of running out of travel even if you set the brake blocks close to the rim. On Shimano setups this leaves the ugly possibility that if you leave the caliper QR open, you might have seriously impaired brakes. The Campagnolo lever QR is a better idea in this respect.

cheers

[springhead]

Mine are Cinelli 64's - the Giro d'Italia model, with new Campagnolo Ergo's.

I like the drop section pretty much flat so I've had to put the levers fairly high up the curve. I can fully depress the brake levers without the gear paddle hitting the bars, but I do see what you mean.

The Dia Compe is basically a 1A clone but with a bit more height. The 'real' 1A I'm using was a fairly snug fit over the engraved section and I wouldn't want to scratch them up by trying to slide a smaller stem over. Likewise I don't want a breakage of bar or stem - could completely spoil a ride!

I think I'll end up buying a new pair of 26.0 Cinelli 64's, unless I see a set in good condition on eBay.


Jules

[531colin]

...................... A friend of mine recently tried to buy some handlebars with a sleeve and basically failed; apart from retro Cinellis (which I like BTW, but don't very well suit STIs and Ergos ) he found none..............

Nitto "noodles" have a sleeve. I like them, they are shallow drop but fairly long reach, which means the bar bag is "back a bit".
You just have to learn to like that funny extra bend that brings the "tops" back a bit........what for?

[Brucey]

I think the backwards bend is similar in function to the 3 degree bend in many MTB flat bars. Not everybody's cup of tea I am sure. I'd be interested to try those, but at that price I can restrain my curiosity for now.

Nice selection of quill stems and bars here;

http://velosolo.co.uk/shopbar.html

including that rare thing, an inexpensive short 1-1/8" stem, just 35mm long.

cheers

[Mick F]

Brucey.
When I went to Ergopower from standard brake levers and DT levers, I had absolutely no idea that there was any issue whatsoever about fitting Ergopower to handlebars. My normal brake levers fitted, so why not Ergopower? They are the same fixing system and the Ergo clamps are in the same position as my old Campag Victory levers - you can see the scratches!

Here's the Campag instruction sheet. The "OK" bit is identical to the way my bike is including the shape of the 'bars.

[Brucey]

This is a little OT but... I don't think it is a major issue for some people, but it could be for others. If you look at an Ergo lever and compare it with an ordinary brake lever it is clear that the gearchange paddle will hit a standard curved handlebar first with the Ergo and (all else being equal) you have lost about 10mm of brake lever tip travel. On anatomical handlebars this loss is somewhat mitigated.

[edit- the 'No' illustration in the Mick's illustration would likely be just fine with a conventional brake lever; it is either lever travel and/or cable routing considerations which make it not so with the Ergos].

On Shimano STIs the paddle is typically a touch smaller and there is (vs an otherwise similar conventional lever) essentially no loss of lever travel with a typical anatomical handlebar and still some loss with a single radius bar.

[edit 2- some later Shimano STIs have larger paddles which are offset so that they should miss the handlebar to one side. Presumably Shimano's engineers thought this a better compromise.]

An interesting test is to see how how close the lever pulls to the bar when the brakes are adjusted normally. Then factor in the possibility that, in a single wet, hilly ride, you can lose 1mm or more from each brake block (and/or leave the caliper QR open on a Shimano setup); you might just lose your brakes if you don't adjust them mid-ride.

Obviously with some calipers this is less likely to be an issue, but people use STIs and Ergos with all kinds of brake calipers, so some will have less in reserve than others.

cheers

[rich100]

...................... A friend of mine recently tried to buy some handlebars with a sleeve and basically failed; apart from retro Cinellis (which I like BTW, but don't very well suit STIs and Ergos ) he found none..............

Nitto "noodles" have a sleeve. I like them, they are shallow drop but fairly long reach, which means the bar bag is "back a bit".
You just have to learn to like that funny extra bend that brings the "tops" back a bit........what for?

I have the noodle's too, I love the design of the sleeve with the crests on them, although mine sadly covered by gps and light mount. I bought mine for the set back of the tops, reduces the stretch as I like a more upright ride and it helps a little, I also have some VO Randonneur bars with similar shape.

[Mick F]

This is a little OT but... I don't think it is a major issue for some people, but it could be for others. If you look at an Ergo lever and compare it with an ordinary brake lever it is clear that the gearchange paddle will hit a standard curved handlebar first with the Ergo and (all else being equal) you have lost about 10mm of brake lever tip travel.

Yes, sorry everybody - off topic

I take issue with your 10mm loss.

The paddle is shaped off to the outside, so maybe you lose about 2mm at the most - perhaps even nil. I adjusted my front brake so my lever nearly bottomed out, then took a couple of photographs. The thickness of the paddle lever is quite slim and very close to the brake lever, whilst the wide "finger" part is handed outwards away from the 'bars.

[531colin]

...... noodle's ........ the set back of the tops, reduces the stretch as I like a more upright ride and it helps a little,.........

You can get a shorter reach with a "compact" bar than with a Noodle....I actually started using Noodles to get a shorter stem than I had with compact bars, so I could have the bar bag closer to the headset....
Oh well, each to their own!
BTW, the wide Noodles which are "heat treated" are more expensive than the narrow ones.