Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

[pigman]

As for French and Italian cars you can keep them. Practicality first (by a long way) style second.

totally agree here. These cars are like a carbon frame - look good (arguably), feel good, fast! Durability - none!
The japanese cars are like a good steel frame - dependable and a friend for life (a long time anyhow)

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If we are talking style then lets talk riding style starting with Miguel Indurain.

depending on your view, possibly the last clean winner of The Tour!

[Oracle]

IMO Indurain was a superb athlete and his incredibly low resting heart rate is legend. Of course, he did test ‘positive’ in France for salbutamol which is found in ventolin, the drug used to treat asthma, but that’s OK as long as you have a note from the doctor.

Also, Indurain does not ‘buy in’ to the theory that Armstrong took anything banned (EPO). Might have used an oxygen tent on occasions, but that was available to everyone and our very own Boardman (and Hoy?) did that when attempting to beat records. Also, did Armstrong ‘cheat’ in all tours or are all the allegations being just hyped up by a very bitter French media, who we know did not particularly like him. I believe he was the most tested athlete in history so far as drug control is concerned. Strange how the French have never attempted to investigate Bernard Hinault (who is pretty well top of my list of great riders).

Landis is a totally different case as levels of testosterone found in his body were considered very abnormal and his recovery has been likened to that of Lazarus. However, a technicality in procedure might save the day for him. Rather like someone escaping a ban for doing over 100 mph on a motorway due to a ‘legal loophole’.

As for cars, my extremely durable, stylish and very practical Citroen Picasso has done over 100,000 miles and is still going well – ooops, that’s guaranteed trouble!

[pigman]

Indurain did test ‘positive’ in France for salbutamol

oh well, that's b#ggered up my theory then

[PW]

I've read lots of those theories! I tend to go with the one about Bartali who was a winner after the war in the late 40s. Even then benzedrine was fairly common, Coppi admitted to using it "when necessary" which turned out to be "almost always".

[speedsixdave]

Shimano have a knack of leading the way

not necessarily .... if I remember correctly, campag were the first to introduce their ergo levers and shimano followed.

Morning all, slow day at work here...

Can't let that falsehood go, even though I am a Campy man. Shimano's STI first put in an appearance as prototypes in the 1988 Giro on 7-Eleven bikes, and were 'common' from about 1990. Ergopower didn't get going until 1992.

But they were a good example of sleek vs. workmanlike: STIs looked and still look like they are made by engineers, whereas Ergo look like proper brake levers. And after nearly 20 years Shimano have still got those cables poking out the side!

Clean and Dirty riders

Did LeMond ever test positive? What about Roche? Certainly Fignon, Delgado, Indurain (just), Riis, Ullrich, Pantani and Landis all tested positive at one time or another in their careers. I'll bet you a pound that Hinault dabbled, but Armstrong is still a mystery. Never liked the man, but I'm sure he wasn't that daft.

So that's nearly everyone from 1978 to 2006. Not a great record, is it?

[AlbionLass]

And that's since more rigorous testing was implemented, never mind the 60's when it seems most of the top flite riders, Anquetil, Simpson etc were throwing amphetamines down their necks like they were Tic-Tacs and testing was only just beginning to come into force (and was totally scorned and flouted by many riders).