Squeaking Sram hubgear

[ukdodger]

My Sram i-motion9 hubgear has just started making the same squeaking noise it made 800m before it failed completely the last time. Under pedal pressure it makes a loud squeak in 6th gear. That's the same as the last time. Then it spread outwards to gears 5&7 then 4&8 then all gears and then it failed. The pedals wouldnt turn forwards but the bike freewheeled Ok. It's now out of guarantee and I have no doubt the German bike shop who sold it to me - Bike Components De - will give me short shrift as it's been back to them twice. Once for the problem above and once because the yellow alignment dots couldnt be lined up after the first repair. Both times Bike Components De refused to change the unit for another and insisted the repair was good enough.

Could I repair it myself? I know almost nothing about hubgears. If anyone has been down this path I'd be grateful for their help. Thanks

Pissed off of Surrey.

[WOOLIFERKINS]

Which hub is it?

[ukdodger]

Which hub is it?

Oops - Sram i-motion9

[WOOLIFERKINS]

Just linked the thread to SRAM Tech in the UK. Let's see if we get a reply

[ukdodger]

Just linked the thread to SRAM Tech in the UK. Let's see if we get a reply

Interesting. Thanks

[Brucey]

you can see the internals here;

http://www.rideyourbike.com/sramIGH.shtml

AFAICT SRAM do not intend this hub to be serviced; if they did, you would be able to buy the crush nut.

BTW I know for a fact that I could cheerfully break any hub gear made just by adjusting it badly, changing gear badly, and not ever putting any grease or oil in it.

When I encounter anyone who has broken a hub gear, I am conscious of the fact that some hub gears are stronger than others. A few (not many in fact) are badly designed, so that they will break, regardless of how they are used or treated. But I do wonder how many of those other things have been done to it, too.

There are very many myths about hub gears;

1) They are 'maintenance free'. They are not. They need cleaning, adjusting, lubing, just like anything else. How often depends on the hub and the conditions of use.
2) You can 'fit them in any frame'. You cannot; if the no-turn washers are not correctly fitted and the axle turns, all bets are off.
3) You can 'change gear whilst pedalling hard'. No. This will break the hub.
4) You can 'change gear whilst stationary'. No. Some shifts on some hubs, yes. But generally, no, it is a very bad idea, especially if your next manoeuvre is to push very hard on the pedals.
5) You can 'change gear when freewheeling'. See above.
6) You can 'change gear when pedalling backwards'. See above. [Perhaps you are wondering why; try selecting reverse gear in a car when you are going forwards: That. And other things.]
7) You don't need to maintain the shifter mechanism. No; the indexing (apart from Rohloff) is in the shifter, not the hub. If the shifter and/or cable/toggle chain/ cassette joint etc are bad, the hub won't work right, and you may break it.
8 ) You 'don't need to check the adjustment; it'll let you know when it is wrong by slipping, and then you can adjust it and it'll be fine'. No. You may break the hub.

Mnay of these myths are perpetuated by the users of various hubs, and are taken as Gospel, then applied willy-nilly to other, completely different hubs.

In fairness some of these things are hinted at or even stated by the manufacturers, too. Goodness knows why; e.g. 'eny fule kno' that even simple hubs with decent seals benefit from fresh lube on a regular basis, yet people are prepared to 'suspend disbelief' for no readily apparent reason with something x100 more complicated inside....

IMHO hub gears are best owned and used by people who are prepared to use and maintain them correctly, or who are prepared to have their hub serviced/adjusted on a regular basis in the LBS. All this 'buy it off the internet, lob it in a bike then ignore it until something happens' stuff is bound to end in tears IMHO.

Right; rant over. Apologies if none of the above applies to the OP....

cheers

[ukdodger]

you can see the internals here;

http://www.rideyourbike.com/sramIGH.shtml

AFAICT SRAM do not intend this hub to be serviced; if they did, you would be able to buy the crush nut.

BTW I know for a fact that I could cheerfully break any hub gear made just by adjusting it badly, changing gear badly, and not ever putting any grease or oil in it.

When I encounter anyone who has broken a hub gear, I am conscious of the fact that some hub gears are stronger than others. A few (not many in fact) are badly designed, so that they will break, regardless of how they are used or treated. But I do wonder how many of those other things have been done to it, too.

There are very many myths about hub gears;

1) They are 'maintenance free'. They are not. They need cleaning, adjusting, lubing, just like anything else. How often depends on the hub and the conditions of use.
2) You can 'fit them in any frame'. You cannot; if the no-turn washers are not correctly fitted and the axle turns, all bets are off.
3) You can 'change gear whilst pedalling hard'. No. This will break the hub.
4) You can 'change gear whilst stationary'. No. Some shifts on some hubs, yes. But generally, no, it is a very bad idea, especially if your next manoeuvre is to push very hard on the pedals.
5) You can 'change gear when freewheeling'. See above.
6) You can 'change gear when pedalling backwards'. See above. [Perhaps you are wondering why; try selecting reverse gear in a car when you are going forwards: That. And other things.]
7) You don't need to maintain the shifter mechanism. No; the indexing (apart from Rohloff) is in the shifter, not the hub. If the shifter and/or cable/toggle chain/ cassette joint etc are bad, the hub won't work right, and you may break it.
8 ) You 'don't need to check the adjustment; it'll let you know when it is wrong by slipping, and then you can adjust it and it'll be fine'. No. You may break the hub.

Mnay of these myths are perpetuated by the users of various hubs, and are taken as Gospel, then applied willy-nilly to other, completely different hubs.

In fairness some of these things are hinted at or even stated by the manufacturers, too. Goodness knows why; e.g. 'eny fule kno' that even simple hubs with decent seals benefit from fresh lube on a regular basis, yet people are prepared to 'suspend disbelief' for no readily apparent reason with something x100 more complicated inside....

IMHO hub gears are best owned and used by people who are prepared to use and maintain them correctly, or who are prepared to have their hub serviced/adjusted on a regular basis in the LBS. All this 'buy it off the internet, lob it in a bike then ignore it until something happens' stuff is bound to end in tears IMHO.

Right; rant over. Apologies if none of the above applies to the OP....

cheers

You're right Brucey it doesnt. As a point of interest if gears should not be changed while pedalling or standing still when should they?

This Sram has done around 4kmiles in total. It last broke down in October 2011 so I assume it was serviced then. Maybe I've done 800m since then. It's still only 2years 4months old. I'm not a punishing rider. I look after stuff. It should still work {FFE - family-friendly edit }.

[WOOLIFERKINS]

Brucey,
Which nut?

[WOOLIFERKINS]

PM inbound!

[Brucey]

Brucey,
Which nut?

this one (as per my previous link);



maybe this info is now out of date; all I know is that I have a terrible time getting hold of some SRAM stuff; they just don't seem to import the full range into the UK.

cheers

[ukdodger]

Brucey,
Which nut?

this one (as per my previous link);



maybe this info is now out of date; all I know is that I have a terrible time getting hold of some SRAM stuff; they just don't seem to import the full range into the UK.

cheers

Taking these things apart scares me sh*tless. I can imagine it falling apart in my hands.

[Brucey]

As a point of interest if gears should not be changed while pedalling or standing still when should they?

This Sram has done around 4kmiles in total. It last broke down in October 2011 so I assume it was serviced then. Maybe I've done 800m since then. It's still only 2years 4months old. I'm not a punishing rider. I look after stuff. It should still work {FFE - family-friendly edit }.

The only shifting method that works reliably with the vast majority of hub gears is to pedal forwards without substantial pressure whilst changing gear. Stationary, freewheeling, backpedalling shifting can work OK on quite few 'pawl defeat' and 'clutching' shifts, but it typically cannot guarantee that sun pinion shifts are completed before you resume pedalling. These shifts are only definitely completed in many hubs once you have pedalled a couple of turns forwards without significant pressure. With a little practice you will feel the gear go in (with your feet; moving the gear control proves nothing).

A good example of a sun pinion shift is the 2-1 shift on a SA five speed (any version). I have known several SA 5speed hubs be condemned by their owners (and even bike shops... ) because they made foul sounds when doing this shift. [Nothing wrong with the hubs at all BTW; and once correctly lubed they have given good service, provided they are shifted correctly].

With some other hubs it gets complicated as to which shift is which, plus with uniform gaps you could easily get confused. So best to assume that they are all potentially like that and shift accordingly.

BTW whilst 800 miles isn't that far, 18 months is a long time. Depending on how good the seals were (and SRAM I-motion 9 ones are considered far from perfect), I'd expect to re-lube a hub gear several times in that interval. The factory gease is not very good quality or quantity, and is not mobile enough inside the hub to guarantee that everything stays correctly lubricated for ever. Take a look at the pictures on the link I posted before, and ask yourself if your weather is more like Seattle or Texas. I quite like to see something gradually coming out of the hub in use. This tells me that there is plenty of lube in there, and provided it isn't coming out like brown water, then it probably isn't, er.... brown water.... -which means that water probably hasn't got inside.

cheers

[ukdodger]

As a point of interest if gears should not be changed while pedalling or standing still when should they?

This Sram has done around 4kmiles in total. It last broke down in October 2011 so I assume it was serviced then. Maybe I've done 800m since then. It's still only 2years 4months old. I'm not a punishing rider. I look after stuff. It should still work {FFE - family-friendly edit }.

The only shifting method that works reliably with the vast majority of hub gears is to pedal forwards without substantial pressure whilst changing gear. Stationary, freewheeling, backpedalling shifting can work OK on quite few 'pawl defeat' and 'clutching' shifts, but it typically cannot guarantee that sun pinion shifts are completed before you resume pedalling. These shifts are only definitely completed in many hubs once you have pedalled a couple of turns forwards without significant pressure. With a little practice you will feel the gear go in (with your feet; moving the gear control proves nothing).

A good example of a sun pinion shift is the 2-1 shift on a SA five speed (any version). I have known several SA 5speed hubs be condemned by their owners (and even bike shops... ) because they made foul sounds when doing this shift. [Nothing wrong with the hubs at all BTW; and once correctly lubed they have given good service, provided they are shifted correctly].

With some other hubs it gets complicated as to which shift is which, plus with uniform gaps you could easily get confused. So best to assume that they are all potentially like that and shift accordingly.

BTW whilst 800 miles isn't that far, 18 months is a long time. Depending on how good the seals were (and SRAM I-motion 9 ones are considered far from perfect), I'd expect to re-lube a hub gear several times in that interval. The factory gease is not very good quality or quantity, and is not mobile enough inside the hub to guarantee that everything stays correctly lubricated for ever. Take a look at the pictures on the link I posted before, and ask yourself if your weather is more like Seattle or Texas. I quite like to see something gradually coming out of the hub in use. This tells me that there is plenty of lube in there, and provided it isn't coming out like brown water, then it probably isn't, er.... brown water.... -which means that water probably hasn't got inside.

cheers

Reading the manual Brucey it clearly says the i9 is permanently lubricated and maintenance free. So you're saying that's not the case. If not how do you change the oil? Cant see any access holes??

[Brucey]

if you read the link I posted earlier you will see how to add lubricant to the hub quickly and easily.

cheers

[ukdodger]

Interesting. The Sram I-motion 9 was discontinued last year. Wonder what the replacement will be. If any.