Fit question stretched out on the hoods

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Vantage
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Re: Fit question stretched out on the hoods

Postby Vantage » 16 Mar 2013, 9:10pm

The best way to measure is from the centre of the stem cap bolt to the centre of the bar clamp. Hopefully you can see it on the copied pic of your bike.
For what it's worth, going from a hybrid to a race bike will feel somewhat stretched and may take some time to get used to but a shorter stem will help alot. They go as short as 50mm and maybe shorter so best to try out in the shop itself.
You may find that an inline seatpost can make a fair bit of difference too if the shorter stem makes the bike too "twitchy".
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Mark1978
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Re: Fit question stretched out on the hoods

Postby Mark1978 » 16 Mar 2013, 9:11pm

easyroller wrote:Oooh Trek Madone! Must be a nice step up from the hybrid! :D


Will be once I get my fit issues sorted and I get used to it so I can ride with the same sort of confidence. At the moment downhills are an issue!

Felt like my ride was much more tiring than normal but according to Strava I was climbing faster too :)

Brucey
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Re: Fit question stretched out on the hoods

Postby Brucey » 16 Mar 2013, 10:32pm

It is perhaps as well to consider that you can set the drops up in a 'touring' position, or a 'racing' position, or somewhere inbetween.

The difference is that on the hoods and/or the drops, the hands are further forwards and lower in the full race setup; this enables a flat back position which is aerodynamically efficient.

At the other extreme, riding on the tops in a touring setup isn't far off a sit-up-and-beg position, and even on the drops the touring position doesn't necessarily allow for a fully flat back.

In loose terms the difference in bar position might be up to four inches vertically and about two inches horizontally.

Some ex-racers still 'tour' using a race position, and some tourists never use the drops at all. Migrating from a hybrid, you are in for some culture shock at least; finding a comfortable, but aerodynamically more efficient position will help you go faster, or further for the same effort. A good compromise position will allow you to be comfortable in your most favoured position, sit up and look at the daisies when you want, and get down on the drops for speedy descents as needed. It may well take a little effort to get set up just right, and your ideas about what suits may change en route too.

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Jezrant
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Re: Fit question stretched out on the hoods

Postby Jezrant » 16 Mar 2013, 11:10pm

Image

I find that "toeclip" overlap surprising. Does it bother you at all? I noticed it when you posted this pic earlier in the Casseroll thread. It's quite striking.

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Re: Fit question stretched out on the hoods

Postby reohn2 » 16 Mar 2013, 11:17pm

Jezrant
Toe overlap only applies when the steering is turned,IMO the front m/guard would clear his toes when the steering is in that position.
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Re: Fit question stretched out on the hoods

Postby PH » 16 Mar 2013, 11:19pm

Plenty of good advice on here, but if it was me I'd do a few more rides before changing anything. The second pic shows where I have my hands a lot of the time, I don't need to always be covering the brakes. That's the same on my straight bar bikes with bar ends.

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531colin
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Re: Fit question stretched out on the hoods

Postby 531colin » 16 Mar 2013, 11:21pm

There is no overlap.....the wheel moves in an arc.

Jezrant
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Re: Fit question stretched out on the hoods

Postby Jezrant » 16 Mar 2013, 11:21pm

Not so sure about that R2, but let's see what Colin has to say. It's especially surprising to see that much overlap on such a large frame. It's normally only an issue on small frames. I wonder if this was a consequence of the slack seat tube.

edit: ah, see our posts crossed. ta.

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Re: Fit question stretched out on the hoods

Postby 531colin » 16 Mar 2013, 11:24pm

Mark1978 wrote:It's a 52cm.

I did move the seat up a little as to that set by the shop with a hope to improve my reach issues. Didn't really help. (You can see in the pic as the rear reflector was originally on the bottom.


Hmmmm.....a 54 would have got you 1cm higher head tube for just 2mm extra reach.

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Re: Fit question stretched out on the hoods

Postby PH » 16 Mar 2013, 11:25pm

IrishBill76 wrote:You may find that an inline seatpost can make a fair bit of difference too if the shorter stem makes the bike too "twitchy".

Sorry, but that's the one thing I wouldn't do. Saddle position needs to be correct in relation to the cranks. Reach is something else. I doubt changing the saddle position to correct the reach would result in a good fit, unless it was wrong to start with...

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531colin
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Re: Fit question stretched out on the hoods

Postby 531colin » 16 Mar 2013, 11:35pm

From an old thread http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=53020&hilit=overlap&start=105
This is the 51cm tourer, 610mm front centres, 32mm tyre, 165mm crank....22mm clearance.

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My roughstuff bike has 640mm front centres....no overlap in boots.

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Re: Fit question stretched out on the hoods

Postby Jezrant » 16 Mar 2013, 11:50pm

Hah, that one looks more reassuring. :wink:
Re the 52/54cm dilemma from the earlier thread, I wonder if it all sounded too alien to the OP. As Colin explained in that thread, the 54cm would have given the OP a more upright starting position. Mark, did you try a 54cm at the shop or only the 52cm? I suppose it's too late to take it back and swap frames, but you will be able to sort this out with some experimenting with other stems as others have suggested. FWIW, a lot of people put up with a compromised position, but for your own enjoyment and pleasure it's worth putting in the extra time and effort to tweak the position as best you can. You'll get there in the end, I promise!

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Re: Fit question stretched out on the hoods

Postby JohnW » 17 Mar 2013, 12:52am

531colin wrote:Rules of thumb for riding position....thats all they are, just rules of thumb....but they do provide a place to start.
These rules of thumb result from the "herd experience" of generations of cyclists....they aren't science, they aren't fact, don't waste time arguing the toss over wether they are right, wrong, or halfway between, dont try to explain them.....just use them to get started, then play around from there.
Set the saddle up first to be comfortable to pedal, then set the bars....you can't move the BB!!

1) foot position on the pedal....ball of the foot over pedal spindle, or a bit forward of pedal spindle.
2) saddle height so there is a bit of bend in your knee when the bottom foot is level

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3) saddle setback....lots of people are comfortable when set up "knee over pedal spindle" ....thats all..no science...just works for lots of people.....compare with your bike you are used to....don't feel an outcast if it doesn't work for you!

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4)handlebar height....I'm 65, I have my bars level with the saddle....good place to start if you aren't used to drops. You may well find your stem can be flipped up the other way to get more height.

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5) angle of bars and brake lever position...I like the forward pointing flat bit of the top of the bars level, and the levers quite high on the bends, so the hoods are a continuation of that flat bit of bar, or even angle upwards....I find this the most comfortable position for riding on the hoods, incidentally it also reduces the effective reach compared to having the levers set lower.

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6)Reach....the hardest bit for rules of thumb, and the last bit to work on anyway. Rule of thumb one....elbow on saddle nose, index finger brushes the back of the bar.....maybe!!.
Rule of thumb 2....when riding, the bars hide the front hub....maybe!!
You should be comfortable and relaxed, with a bit of give in your elbows. If the reach is too long, I find my hands come back to behind the hoods....too short, and I drop my neck down between my shoulders.

It will take time to get used to drops!


Colin - it's easy to see that you're a professional among professionals. This post of yours should be published as a text book, and posted on the forum every time someone asks the same, or similar, question.

I'm going to have a go at printing this off - so often we get new cyclists in our section who don't even know about position.

A big thank-you Colin. This explains it all in a simple and easy to understand way.

Even if one follows the rules, there's always a milimeter or two adjustment to get it perfect, but the rules get one near enough - and some people never need to go further than that.

But you illustrate it so well.

And - nice bike!!!

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Re: Fit question stretched out on the hoods

Postby Edwards » 17 Mar 2013, 6:15am

Mark Trek do a short Stem that has a rise about the same as shown in Colins picture. The plus being it will match the rest of the bike.

Turning the stem over will give you a bike more height but in my experience this does not make that much difference in the reach.

But if you should wish to try this (nothing to loose) and you will learn something about the bike (a gain). I have put together a basic scheme of work.

1/ Slacken off the bolt at the top of the forks. Position the Allen key and remember that position (do not remove). Slacken the bolt by one full turn, then tighten to the same position. Remember the effort needed to tighten the bolt to the same position.

2/ Remove the bolt and the Top cap Then look inside the Stem and you will see a Star shaped thing that the bolt goes into (the Star Fanged Nut).

3/ If you look carefully you can see that this is inside a tube (the Forks Steerer Tube (1 1/8 on this bike).
This tube should be about 1 to 2 mm below the stem. This distance is important if you change the Stem. Try to get the same distance as the original setup if you change the stem.

4/ Turn the Top Cap over and you will see that it has a step in the bottom surface.

5/ Slacken off the 2 bolts that clamp the stem around the Steerer Tube.

6/ Slacken off the 2 or 4 bolts (the Face Plate) that hold the stem to the handle bars (31.8mm on this bike). Do not remove yet. Work out the best way to support the handle bars when the Stem is removed and remove the Face Plate bolts supporting the Handlebars.

7/ Turn the stem over and replace all the bolts very very loosely. Position the Stem in the correct forward position then tighten then Top Cap bolt (to the force you remembered).

8/ Tighten the bolts that clamp the Stem to the Steerer Tube.

9/ Position the handle bars centrally in the stem and at the correct angle to the floor and tighten all the Face Plate bolts equally (work your way around the bolts turning the the same amount each time)

10/ Then check the front Forks do not move by applying the front Brake and rocking the bike back and forth. If they do move Slacken the bolts that clamp the stem and tighten the Top Cap bolt slightly. Rock the bike and check for movement, if there is non tighten the Stem clamping bolts.

If the Stem is changed then the height of the steerer tube BELOW THE STEM could change. If this happens you will need different thicknesses of Spacers (rings under the Stem) to get this to the same as before.

I realy do hope this make sence.
Last edited by Edwards on 22 Mar 2013, 10:59am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fit question stretched out on the hoods

Postby Vorpal » 17 Mar 2013, 7:40am

CREPELLO wrote:
531colin wrote:Don't forget to look at the angle of the bars, and the position of the hoods....and comfort starts with getting the saddle in the right place.
+1

Also learn the art of bar tape wrapping. The STI's could easily come up and back a cm or two. Note that you can roughly approximate this alteration by moving the bars round in the clamp, although just doing that in itself isn't ideal if you want to have the drops in a usable position.


I actually prefer to have my STI's a bit further round than Colin. Similar to the 'as built' configuration on the OP's bike. Although it took a little getting used to it, I can reach the brakes more easily on the drops that way.

Mark1978, you may be able to try some different positions for the levers by a simple means. Just loosen the handlebars and rotate them up. Move them a cm at a time and see how it fits. Or sit on the bike (with a wall or bench for support) and put them in a comfortable position. Then tighten thme up again, and go for a ride. If you end up with them at a 45 degree angle before you are comfortable, a new stem is probably the answer. If it's just a couple of cm, you might be okay either leaving them that way, or moving the STI's around a bit.

Good luck :D
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