andrewk wrote:Scrub the Spa Ti tourer option, I made the mistake of buying one as it was a bit cheaper than a Van Nic Amazon. This has proved to be a false economy. Its crude and with useless brakes, graunchy gearchanges and other issues in addition to a heavy steel fork which probably weighs more than the frame.
A friend of mine loves his. It certainly doesn't seem crude to me. Grauchy gearchanges are easily remedied with adjustment etc (has something got bent in transit). Touring bike brakes are generally poorer than others and the Van Nic Amazon is likely to suffer the same issues (no-one makes proper touring bike brakes). My tourer suffers from it too see viewtopic.php?f=5&t=75269
"Marriage is a wonderful invention; but then again so is the bicycle puncture repair kit." - Billy Connolly
I've had a good long look at the Spa Ti tourer and I fail to understand anyone considering it inferior in any way. The quality of components is good and, as usual with Spa, the wheels are top notch, being true and correctly tensioned. The finish is not highly polished it's true but most serious tourists may think this as an advantage in that it reduces the chances of theft while touring. The geometry of the frame seems ideal for a proper touring bike and all in all I see it as ideal for long-distance, loaded touring.
georgew wrote:I've had a good long look at the Spa Ti tourer and I fail to understand anyone considering it inferior in any way. The quality of components is good and, as usual with Spa, the wheels are top notch, being true and correctly tensioned. The finish is not highly polished it's true but most serious tourists may think this as an advantage in that it reduces the chances of theft while touring. The geometry of the frame seems ideal for a proper touring bike and all in all I see it as ideal for long-distance, loaded touring.
+1
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
I hated the brakes (cantis) when I got it, and was going to try to and replace them with discs or something...till I replaced the pads with koolstops - and now they're absolutely wonderful, and better than the V's on my old mountain bike (which also has koolstops and Spa wheels...correction, at the moment it hasn't got koolstops it's got whatever came with some new v-brakes since I replaced them a few weeks ago - which is good as the koolstops always squeaked horribly...but not on the Spa bike, interestingly...)
The gears are also fantastic. They needed a bit of adjusting to begin with, and it took me a few attempts to get it right due to misunderstanding how the derailleur worked, but since then they've been magic.
I hated the brakes (cantis) when I got it, and was going to try to and replace them with discs or something...till I replaced the pads with koolstops - and now they're absolutely wonderful, and better than the V's on my old mountain bike (which also has koolstops and Spa wheels...correction, at the moment it hasn't got koolstops it's got whatever came with some new v-brakes since I replaced them a few weeks ago - which is good as the koolstops always squeaked horribly...but not on the Spa bike, interestingly...)
The gears are also fantastic. They needed a bit of adjusting to begin with, and it took me a few attempts to get it right due to misunderstanding how the derailleur worked, but since then they've been magic.
(pictures of both bikes in my signature)
Nice looking bike. I have Koolstops on CR720s on my bike and they work pretty well. Are Spa flexible about spec? I don't need some bits, e.g. I have a Tubus rack, B17 and nice seatpost I'd transfer over. I also have a spare boxed set of Ultegra 9 speed STIs that might be better than the Tiagra ones fitted.
Philip_Rogers wrote:Nice looking bike. I have Koolstops on CR720s on my bike and they work pretty well. Are Spa flexible about spec? I don't need some bits, e.g. I have a Tubus rack, B17 and nice seatpost I'd transfer over. I also have a spare boxed set of Ultegra 9 speed STIs that might be better than the Tiagra ones fitted.
I just went with the standard spec as I decided they were probably far better qualified to decide it than I was! They kept asking me questions about options, to which my reply was invariably - "What do you think is best?"
Go with the 9 speed STI, I would say. New Tiagra is 10 speed, so its not compatible with MTB rear mechs. 10 speed Tiagra road mech. will now handle 30T rear sprocket, but I like my 34T rear with an MTB rear mech.......a bail out gear when you are shattered. Obviously you would need to get the STIs to the shop for the build, but its no problem supplying a bike without stuff like carriers and seatposts, its probably easier to fit those yourself than to post them.
531colin wrote:Go with the 9 speed STI, I would say. New Tiagra is 10 speed, so its not compatible with MTB rear mechs. 10 speed Tiagra road mech. will now handle 30T rear sprocket, but I like my 34T rear with an MTB rear mech.......a bail out gear when you are shattered. Obviously you would need to get the STIs to the shop for the build, but its no problem supplying a bike without stuff like carriers and seatposts, its probably easier to fit those yourself than to post them.
Thanks Colin. I will go with 9 speed regardless. Senior_Management's Lady Amazon is 9 speed and keeping spares for the one system is easier. I would go to Harrogate to try one if I went down the Spa route, but am perhaps slightly more minded to get measured by Paul Hewitt and get a new frame from him. Leyland is just about do-able in a day. Harrogate is more awkward. Still have an open mind though! Am very undecided about 725 or titanium though. Is Ti worth the extra money?
I think it depends on how you feel about money....are you of the "cheapest I can get it for" or the "don't spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar" persuasion? Latest Spa project is a 725 tourer, so when all the prototypes are assembled as test bikes, you will be able to do a back-to-back comparison. I can tell the difference between Ti and 725 audax bikes ridden back to back, with the same tyres, wheels, forks, and cycle parts. Wether its worth the money, only you can decide! It makes a difference if you are short and heavy, or tall and light, and what assumptions the designer makes....a custom builder can choose tubes to suit you, off-the-peg can't!
Re Ti finish; I've owned several bikes with different Ti finishes and the one I thought I wanted (polished to a mirror finish) is by far the most likely to show marks and need buffing back to a good state. Some Ti frames are supplied with a near matte finish that can be cleaned etc using a simple scotchbrite pad; this is very much more practical. Normal maintenance is just a wipe with Mr Sheen, and you might (if you are a fanatic) use the scotchbrite once or twice a year if you get scuffs and marks that show.
A finish that is glass-bead blasted is probably the best, but when you do get marks, it is slightly less easy to match the finish unless you use similar blasting.
BTW although I'd expect a bike to arrive fairly well set up, I'd also expect anyone intending to use it for its design purpose to be capable of simple repairs and adjustments. My local shops all expect their customers to bring their bikes back for adjustment after a few weeks of use; stuff moves and adjustments vary as the bike beds in. Any bike bought remotely will also bed in, in exactly the same way. Bikes are not TV sets/refrigerators/DVD players; they need setting up and fettling to work at their best, and in-field repairs are also very likely to be required at some point; these are best carried out by the owner. You could build a bike that wasn't like this I suppose, but I would expect it to cost a fortune and weigh a ton, which would rather defeat the object...
If I thought the Spa Ti was the right bike for me, I'd have no hesitation in spending a weekend going to Harrogate just to try one out, if I wasn't quite sure. It seems a small investment -in time, anyway- by comparison with the countless hours I'd expect to spend riding it afterwards.
531colin wrote:I think it depends on how you feel about money....are you of the "cheapest I can get it for" or the "don't spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar" persuasion? Latest Spa project is a 725 tourer, so when all the prototypes are assembled as test bikes, you will be able to do a back-to-back comparison. I can tell the difference between Ti and 725 audax bikes ridden back to back, with the same tyres, wheels, forks, and cycle parts. Wether its worth the money, only you can decide! It makes a difference if you are short and heavy, or tall and light, and what assumptions the designer makes....a custom builder can choose tubes to suit you, off-the-peg can't!
More the latter sort of customer!
Am just over 6ft and slightly heavy - could lose half a stone - but average build really.
Brucey wrote:Re Ti finish; I've owned several bikes with different Ti finishes and the one I thought I wanted (polished to a mirror finish) is by far the most likely to show marks and need buffing back to a good state. Some Ti frames are supplied with a near matte finish that can be cleaned etc using a simple scotchbrite pad; this is very much more practical. Normal maintenance is just a wipe with Mr Sheen, and you might (if you are a fanatic) use the scotchbrite once or twice a year if you get scuffs and marks that show.
A finish that is glass-bead blasted is probably the best, but when you do get marks, it is slightly less easy to match the finish unless you use similar blasting.
BTW although I'd expect a bike to arrive fairly well set up, I'd also expect anyone intending to use it for its design purpose to be capable of simple repairs and adjustments. My local shops all expect their customers to bring their bikes back for adjustment after a few weeks of use; stuff moves and adjustments vary as the bike beds in. Any bike bought remotely will also bed in, in exactly the same way. Bikes are not TV sets/refrigerators/DVD players; they need setting up and fettling to work at their best, and in-field repairs are also very likely to be required at some point; these are best carried out by the owner. You could build a bike that wasn't like this I suppose, but I would expect it to cost a fortune and weigh a ton, which would rather defeat the object...
If I thought the Spa Ti was the right bike for me, I'd have no hesitation in spending a weekend going to Harrogate just to try one out, if I wasn't quite sure. It seems a small investment -in time, anyway- by comparison with the countless hours I'd expect to spend riding it afterwards.
cheers
Thanks Brucey. I can do basic maintenance so would be happy with a frame. forks, headset fitted and steerer trimmed plus a set of well made wheels. I could build up myself from there.
531colin wrote:I think it depends on how you feel about money....are you of the "cheapest I can get it for" or the "don't spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar" persuasion? Latest Spa project is a 725 tourer, so when all the prototypes are assembled as test bikes, you will be able to do a back-to-back comparison. I can tell the difference between Ti and 725 audax bikes ridden back to back, with the same tyres, wheels, forks, and cycle parts. Wether its worth the money, only you can decide! It makes a difference if you are short and heavy, or tall and light, and what assumptions the designer makes....a custom builder can choose tubes to suit you, off-the-peg can't!
